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I'm concerned about daily driving with a 6 puck clutch disk. I want to be able to slip it if I need to. I tow often which requires slipping the clutch in first to get going. I don't want something that will grab and stall the engine. Can you slip a 6 puck a little to get rolling or do you have to rev the engine a lot to keep it from grabbing and stalling?
It has a little bit of slip but of course not like the factory clutch. It's pretty hilly here in tallahassee and i do fine with all the hills. I'm not sure about towing with this clutch, it might make me a little nervous at first but i;m sure it can be done.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I found ACT clutch ratings for the 2rz on KORacing's website.

NOTE: The torque ratings are at the flywheel

HD pressure plate, full face kevlar/organic disk (most streetable) p/n: TA1-HDMM torque: 286ftlbs.

HD pressure plate, 6 puck ceramic metallic disk sprung (street/race) p/n: TA1-HDG6 torque: 366ftlbs.

HD pressure plate, 6 puck cermaic mettalic disk unsprung (race/street) p/n: TA1-HDR6 torque: 366ftlbs.

XT pressure plate, full face kevlar/organic disk (streetable, heavier pedal) p/n: TA1-XTR6 torque: 350ftlbs.

XT pressure plate, 6 puck ceramic metallic disk sprung (street/race, heavier pedal) p/n: TA1-XTG6 torque: 448ftlbs.

XT pressure plate, 6 puck ceramic metallic disk unsprung (race/street, heavier pedal) p/n: TA1-XTR6 torque: 448ftlbs.

The 2rz uses a slightly smaller 9-1/4" diameter clutch disk. The 3rz uses a 9-7/8" diameter.

I also found a post where someone tried putting a 5vz clutch kit on a 3rz. It seems the pressure plate fits fine but the clutch disk that comes with the 5vz clutch kit has a spring assembly that won't fit in the 3rz flywheel cavity.

"The results are in...
The 3.4L clutch DID NOT fit on the 2.7L Tacoma!!
The problem is the clutch spring assembly will NOT fit in the 2.7L flywheel. Everything else looked OK...the spring assembly of the clutch plate wouldn't fit in the 2.7L flywheel cavity... Once we found that out, we stopped and ordered a new kit for the 2.7L Didn’t check any further..."

From here: http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16795&page=2
 

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My advice from non-Tacoma land (V8s) - don't over clutch. Specifically, doing a 6-puck CERAMIC clutch and a lightened flywheel may very well be the answer for drag racing, but for day to day driving, it sucks.

Ceramics tend to grab once they get hot, but not before, so you get a very narrow window of slipping to really hard grab and it's just painful to drive...
 

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For any kind of streetability, clutch must be mounted with springs.


Did you take a look at what exists with the 2TR engine. Basically it's close to be a 3RZ bottom engine with a R series transmission. Maybe there is a direct fit possibility there.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
dcg9381 I'll be sure to stay away from ceramic 6 puck disks!

I think I'm going to try to stay away from 6 puck disks all together. I'm thinking something with a strong pressure plate clamping force and a full face disk may be best for the daily driving & towing I do.

Exedy makes a 16806A that almost has enough torque rating. The description says "Flywheel Torque Rating: 326 lbs/ft" but then it says "Clutch Torque: 420 Lbs" I have no idea what "Clutch Torque" means:

"Toyota Tacoma 2001-2003, Stage 1 Organic Racing Clutch Sport Kit by EXEDY®. Ductile Casting Disc. Disc Outer Diameter: 250mm. Major Diameter: 29.8mm. Spline Teeth: 21 Teeth. Wheel Torque Rating: 272 lbs/ft. Flywheel Torque Rating: 326 lbs/ft. Clamp Load: 1985 Lbs. Clutch Torque: 420 Lbs. Up the ante with an EXEDY Stage 1 Organic Disc racing clutch kit. If you’ve bumped up your horsepower a little, and want a more robust clutch with more clamping load and only slightly higher clutch pedal effort, this is the right clutch for you."
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I picked up a transmission yesterday! Here's how it went:

Me: You pulled a trans for a 98 4runner for me yesterday.
Redneck: It's right over here.
Me: That's an automatic
Redneck: You asked for an auto
Me: I need a manual
Redneck: I don't think 4runners had those
Me: They did. You have one. That's why I called you. It's on car-part.com
Redneck: Sure enough I do have one and it's already pulled.
Me: Great!
Redneck: I don't know where it is we pulled it over 500 days ago it's out here somewhere...
(Gathers search party of 3 more people one wearing camo pajama pants. We searched 15 minutes through hundreds of transmissions laying on the ground in various barns and many outside.)
Redneck: I found it! You got lucky I found it.
Me: Great!
Redneck: I don't feel like taking the transfer case off. How 'bout $350+$50 core.
Me: Okay!

It's from a 99 Tacoma 5vz.

 

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Discussion Starter #27
South bend clutches got back to me. They don't have anything without chatter that can hold the power. :frown

"Dave - DXD Racing Clutches <[email protected]>
4:06 PM (5 hours ago)
to me
I don't have anything that will hold your power goals/ what you're doing with the truck and is street friendly without chatter.
Dave"
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I found a clutch torque calculator.

http://clutch101.blogspot.com/p/clutch-torque-calculator.html?m=1

For 3rz clutch disk I am using these numbers:
Clutch plate outer diameter: 9.85" inches (250mm)
Clutch plate inner diameter: 8.6" inches (1.25" surface width is my best guess since I don't have a disk to measure and no one seems to publish the inner diameter)
 

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Discussion Starter #29
At the moment I'm planning to buy an ACT T020 pressure plate that has a substantially higher but unknown clamp force and a stock Aisin DTX-137L disk. The ACT clutch is designed to mate with a .312" max to .270" min thick disk. I don't know how thick a DTX-137L disk is but hopefully it's in that range. Does anyone have a stock 3rz clutch disk laying around they can measure thickness with calipers or even a tape measure for me please?

ACT lists the T020 pressure plate combined with their ,312" thick performance street disk as capable of 435 flywheel torque capacity. That's about perfect for what I need. Unfortunately they don't offer a performance street disk for the 3rz and there is no way of knowing if the 5vz disk will fit in the 3rz flywheel (guessing it won't or they would have listed it as fitting) so the stock disk or some other disk will have to do.
 

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Kurt,


I don't know if you explored these options but the 3VZ clutch is a smaller than the 5VZ. I think it's the same diameter than the 3RZ. Being a V6 design it could hold more torque even from the OEM to higher performance clutches. Maybe it could allow to use a more user friendly clutch.


Also as I suggest in a upper post, maybe a clutch kit made for the 2TR could be a good option to check. The 2TR is basically a 3RZ botton with a R series transmission... Could even be bolt on... I think the bearing could be the only thing to swap from an older tyoe transmission.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
LCEngineering lists the 3VZ pressure plate as not fitting any other engine here: http://www.lceperformance.com/Pressure-Plate-3VZ-9-1-4-p/1053135.htm

I don't know what is different about 3VZ pressure plates but I don't think they will work on other engines due to the above information.

Here are some clutch swap findings:

2RZ and 3VZ pressure plates are meant to clamp onto a 9-1/4" (236mm) clutch disk and probably don't fit on 3RZ/5VZ/2TR flywheels.

3RZ/5VZ/2TR clutch pressure plates seem to be interchangeable and all are meant to clamp onto a 9-7/8" (250mm) disk. 3RZ/5VZ/2TR clutch disks all should fit on a a 5VZ due to the deep dished area in the center of the 5VZ flywheel. 3RZ and 2TR disks are interchangable. 5VZ disks won't fit on 3RZ or 2TR flywheels because 5VZ disks have larger diameter springs that stick out towards the flywheel.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I sent an e-mail to ask what the clamp force is for the ACT T020 pressure plate.

I got this response right away:

"Hello Kurt,
The clamp load on that pressure plate is 2,570 lbs. It is a 40% increase over the factory unit. Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.
Thanks,
Eric Weatherwax
Customer Service
Advanced Clutch Technology"

It will be a stiff clutch but ACT says it will hold 435 torque with an organic disk. I really want smooth engagement so a stiff clutch is the price I pay.

If my math is correct that means the factory 5vz clutch is 2,570/1.40= 1,836 lbs.
 

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Hey Kurt,


while you'll be there, maybe you would be interested to do the twin stick mod for your transfer case. That allows to put your truck on low gear while still on 2WD. Pretty usefull if you are hauling stuff in traffic jam or to make heavy load in movement. You can start them in the few first low gears then switch to high gears.


It's easier on the clutch for these situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I pulled the trans out today. The ACT clutch fits the flywheel as expected. There is some meat left on the clutch disk so it will be reused.







 
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Discussion Starter #36
I ordered a new flywheel and clutch disk. I might as well put all new parts in while I'm at it!
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Things are not going well. Here is a photo of the input shaft of the R150F with the 2TR bellhousing on it 0.625" beyond the bellhousing flange:



Here is the photo of the stock W59 input shaft 0.550" lower than the bellhousing flange:



There is exactly 1.175" difference between their projection beyond the bellhousing flange. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I also measured bellhousing face to the center of the front bolt of the crossmember mount for each. 22.4375" for the 2TR bellhousing on the R150 trans:




21.375" for the stock W59.




A difference of 1.0625".
 

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We could have found some help in the following link but for some reason it is not working right now.


http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740


It's a kind of bible of bellhousing/trans/engine interchangeability.


I'm pretty surprised and sad for you to see what is happening. I red few times on forums like pirate4x4 that it was direct fit... Seems they did not make it themself and they are just spreading [email protected]


I know the main shaft is swappable between many R based transmission and various shaft lenght has been available, but that involve to purchase another transmission or shaft plus the work to swap it.


On the link I posted they are giving the shaft lenght between R150/R151F pre 95, R150 post 95.5 and Jeep AX-15 that is the same transmission (but not sure about the clutch spline count) and maybe all the internal, ratio have to be swapped.


Maybe the shaft could be machined, but one time more it requires to remove it from the transmission and I don't know how long spline will remains and if there will be enough.


Another option is to make a spacer... maybe you could chop off a 1.175" slice off the W59 bellhousing to make a spacer. A machine shop could do that pretty easilly. But that will create a starter location problem. Maybe 1" longer bolts could thread in the R155 bellhousing... are they directly inline?


I'm just writing as I'm thinking maybe something in that will give you an idea.




Some search just invalidale the option of the AX-15 swap. look at the picture on that post: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/1170378-1jz-2nd-gen-4runner-2.html#post16613970


Therefore that gives you the lenght of an old R151 shaft from 1985.


Here is something that I copied from a post on marlin crawling: "
It's not the bolt face of the tranny at issue. How long is the input shaft on the 95 4Runner trans? 160 mm (6.5") or 190 mm (7.5"). The R150F behind the 3.0 liter v6 engine is 160 mm, same as the R151F behind the 22R-TE..."


You might want to read the entire post: http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=28874.0
 

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Discussion Starter #40
My current plan is to put it on my lathe and remove 1" making the input shaft the same length as the older R150 input shaft.
 
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