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Performance clutch experiences needed

34K views 72 replies 10 participants last post by  kurt4726 
#1 ·
Yesterday coming home from work I floored it going up hill on an on ramp to merge onto the highway. It was at 10lbs boost in third gear and everything was fine until 4000rpm. I believe the clutch slipped a little. I think the clutch slipping put too much side force on the front input shaft bearing. The over-stressed input bearing may have let the input shaft move out of alignment resulting in a chipped a tooth on 3rd gear. Third gear now clicks as I drive! If I give it a lot of power in any gear the input shaft bearing starts whining.

The good news is could still drive it if I went easy.

I bought a 2014 2TR-FE bellhousing off ebay this morning for $170 shipped.

I then drove the truck to pick up a stronger transmission today. I used car-part.com to find a pre-1995 3VZ-FE 3.0 liter V6 R150F transmission with the short 6.5" input shaft $375 72,000 miles on it $20 core charge. When I got to the junk yard they didn't want to take the time to separate the transfer case so I got that free!

With the 2TR bellhousing I should now be able to put the much stronger R150F in place of my stock W59 transmission. If I sell the extra transfer case, two extra bellhousings, and scrap the W59 the cost might not be too bad!



Now I'm shopping for a clutch. I did a little bit of shopping around and Competition Clutch stage 2, 3, & 4 seem to be used by many on here. I was thinking I could probably get away with the stage 3. This is my daily driver so I don't want a 6 puck disk. I also don't want a 2100 lb pressure plate if I can avoid it. The stage 3 has a 1600 lb pressure plate and a streetable disc. This is the only opinion I have heard about the stage 3:

I am running a stage 3 clutch, far less grabby than the stage 4 IMO, and it has held everything I have thrown at it so far (up to 20psi)..
Anybody else running a stage 3? Will it hold 327 wheel torque?
 
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#2 ·
Do you have to do any other modifications to make this transmission bolt up or can you just swap bellhousings? I have two r-150's from my 4runner left over so this would be a good swap. I have a stage 5 clutch, 6 puck sprung i bought off of a member here, the clutch is extremely streetable, hardly different from stock. I have probably 6k miles on it and i would never go back to a different clutch.
 
#3 · (Edited)
If the R150F is a pre-1995 that came with the 3.0 you just swap in a 2TR-FE bellhousing. <---NOTE: This is wrong! A 96 or newer is needed. -Kurt

If it's the newer R150F that came with the 3.4 the input shaft is a little longer so a bellhousing spacer is needed. I also read a special throwout bearing may be needed for the newer 3.4 transmission but I don't really know. <---NOTE: This is wrong! No spacer or special throwout bearing needed. -Kurt

more info here: <---EDIT: This info if for the Marlin bellhousing that is now discontinued.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-tacoma/682430-3rz-r151-single-twin-stick-2.html
 
#6 ·
If the R150F is a pre-1995 that came with the 3.0 you just swap in a 2TR-FE bellhousing.

If it's the newer R150F that came with the 3.4 the input shaft is a little longer so a bellhousing spacer is needed. I also read a special throwout bearing may be needed for the newer 3.4 transmission but I don't really know.

more info here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-tacoma/682430-3rz-r151-single-twin-stick-2.html
The R150F transfer case I got with the 3.0 transmission is passenger side front output. My original W59 was driver side front output. I just found out my W59 transmission had a 26 spline output and the R150F has a 23. I need to sell both my W59 transfer case and 3.0 R150F transfer case and buy a 3.4 R150F transfer case that is driver side front output and 23 spline. Lol.
 
#4 ·
URD lists the torque limit of the Competition Clutch Stage 3 to be 375 rear wheel torque on their website. That's the only place I found the torque limit listed anywhere.

http://urdusa.com/store/Clutch-and-Flywheels-Clutches-by-Competition-Clutch/c178_183/p1260519016/Competition-Clutch,-Stage-III,-2.7L-I4-3RZ-FE-with-5-Speed/product_info.html

I was also looking at SPEC clutches their stage 2+ ST703H model is listed to hold 401 flywheel torque which is about what I'm making. Anybody use this clutch or anything else from SPEC?

Are there any other clutches I should be considering?
 
#5 ·
Kurt,


what you are doing with your swap is what I intended to do for my build also. I finally may start by blowing the W59 but if my memory serves me well, it's the Tacoma post '96 R150F that needs to be used to be direct swap.


The Marlin Crawler adapter that is now discontinued was direct fit for pre 95 R150 and R151 and the Toyota 2TR is direct fit for 96+.
 
#7 ·
#8 ·
Whew, I got the trans returned on the last day they accepted returns. So now I am searching for the more costly and less available 5vz R150F. The lowest mileage one I saw was 128,000 miles for $495. Most are near or over 200k for about the same price lol. I found a 5vz transfer case for $150 but haven't bought it yet in case a junkyard is selling a matched pair for a deal. Anyone have a 5vz trans and transfer case they want to sell for $650 shipped to 45154?
 
#9 ·
You may prefer to find a 96-98 tranfer case because they were available as full manual depending of the options. Maybe some 99 also. After that they were electric actuated.


It's not a issue if it's what you want but from my point of view the lesser electric/electronic stuff the better.




I'd like if you could keep us posted about the slave cylinder, starter, flywheel etc combination...
 
#11 ·
You may prefer to find a 96-98 tranfer case because they were available as full manual depending of the options. Maybe some 99 also. After that they were electric actuated.

It's not a issue if it's what you want but from my point of view the lesser electric/electronic stuff the better.

I'd like if you could keep us posted about the slave cylinder, starter, flywheel etc combination...
What do you mean when you say "electric actuated"? Is there no manual shift knob on the newer transfer cases?

I'll definitely keep you posted about the slave cylinder, starter, flywheel etc combination.
 
#10 ·
#15 ·
Would the stock pressure plate and clutch for the 5vz hold up to 400 flywheel torque? Anybody putting that much torque through a stock 5vz clutch?

The OEM Aisin CTX-107 pressure plate for the 5vz supposedly has greater clamping force than the OEM Aisin CTX-106 pressure plate for the 3rz and is interchangeable.

According to Marlin Crawler:
"3RZ-FE and 5VZ-FE pressure plates are interchangeable, however the factory 3.4l clutch disk will not fit onto the 3RZ flywheel. To solve this problem, aftermarket clutch manufactures have decided to become "CHEAP" by just producing one clutch disk that will fit both the 2.7 and the 3.4 flywheel, based on the 2.7l disk dimensions which are a bit smaller than the 3.4."

So it sounds like I would need to use a stock disk designed to fit a 3rz. The stock 3rz disk is a DTX-137(or DTX-137L). If I could stick with stock components drivability and cost should be better. A CTX-107 is $108 and a DTX-137L is $78 on Amazon. So $186 is pretty cheap if it will hold the power.

sources: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/624288-clutch-do-i-need-use.html

http://www.yotatech.com/f2/clutch-disk-replacement-272839/

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/61-2nd-generation-2005-2015/405006-06-tacoma-clutch.html
 
#16 ·
I picked up a $150+$50 core transfer case today. It is from a 97 3.4 4runner 5 speed. It has the "J" shift pattern I put vice grips on the shift lever nub to verify it. They already sold the transmission it was mated to but I found one from a 98 3.4 4runner $400+$35 core with 131k miles. Only problem is its 100 miles away, still in the truck, and no weekend hours. It will be a few days until I can get it. I'll ask if they will throw in the crossmember. It has a transfer case attached but they want $300+$35 core for it so I bought the other one. I won't be returning any cores so they are a factor in the price. Please tell me if you can think of a reason this transfer case won't work.
 

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#17 ·
For what I know all the R150F were the same between 95.5-04 with no difference between 4runner and Tacomas. The difference was in the transfer case models that was attached to it as we spoke in previous posts.


R150F was also used in other medium sized trucks along the years. Largely unsed in Jeep, since the beginning of the '90 the AX-15 transmission is basically the same Aisin transmission with a different bell and minor ratio change. Engine was the 4.0L. I know the swap exist to fit it behing the Grand Cherokee with 5.2L but even if it's a more torquey engine... we are not in the 400h range...


From the top of my head, Honda Passeport, Isuzu trooper and probably other were using that same trans also.


I have no doubt about the R150F internal strenght, my point is more that maybe any OEM clutch could be on the low side to hold all these ponies.


Maybe a fast search with people experience who have 5VZ supercharged could help you to know how strong it is and hos it will hold.


On my side my plan was to use a stage 1 clutch... but my power expectation never been as much you are planning right now.
 
#19 ·
I'm concerned about daily driving with a 6 puck clutch disk. I want to be able to slip it if I need to. I tow often which requires slipping the clutch in first to get going. I don't want something that will grab and stall the engine. Can you slip a 6 puck a little to get rolling or do you have to rev the engine a lot to keep it from grabbing and stalling?
 
#21 ·
It has a little bit of slip but of course not like the factory clutch. It's pretty hilly here in tallahassee and i do fine with all the hills. I'm not sure about towing with this clutch, it might make me a little nervous at first but i;m sure it can be done.
 
#20 ·
I found a 98 4runner 4x4 manual trans with 93,000 miles for $350+$50 core. They are pulling it out and checking it over this week.
 
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#22 ·
I found ACT clutch ratings for the 2rz on KORacing's website.

NOTE: The torque ratings are at the flywheel

HD pressure plate, full face kevlar/organic disk (most streetable) p/n: TA1-HDMM torque: 286ftlbs.

HD pressure plate, 6 puck ceramic metallic disk sprung (street/race) p/n: TA1-HDG6 torque: 366ftlbs.

HD pressure plate, 6 puck cermaic mettalic disk unsprung (race/street) p/n: TA1-HDR6 torque: 366ftlbs.

XT pressure plate, full face kevlar/organic disk (streetable, heavier pedal) p/n: TA1-XTR6 torque: 350ftlbs.

XT pressure plate, 6 puck ceramic metallic disk sprung (street/race, heavier pedal) p/n: TA1-XTG6 torque: 448ftlbs.

XT pressure plate, 6 puck ceramic metallic disk unsprung (race/street, heavier pedal) p/n: TA1-XTR6 torque: 448ftlbs.

The 2rz uses a slightly smaller 9-1/4" diameter clutch disk. The 3rz uses a 9-7/8" diameter.

I also found a post where someone tried putting a 5vz clutch kit on a 3rz. It seems the pressure plate fits fine but the clutch disk that comes with the 5vz clutch kit has a spring assembly that won't fit in the 3rz flywheel cavity.

"The results are in...
The 3.4L clutch DID NOT fit on the 2.7L Tacoma!!
The problem is the clutch spring assembly will NOT fit in the 2.7L flywheel. Everything else looked OK...the spring assembly of the clutch plate wouldn't fit in the 2.7L flywheel cavity... Once we found that out, we stopped and ordered a new kit for the 2.7L Didn’t check any further..."

From here: http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16795&page=2
 
#23 ·
My advice from non-Tacoma land (V8s) - don't over clutch. Specifically, doing a 6-puck CERAMIC clutch and a lightened flywheel may very well be the answer for drag racing, but for day to day driving, it sucks.

Ceramics tend to grab once they get hot, but not before, so you get a very narrow window of slipping to really hard grab and it's just painful to drive...
 
#25 ·
dcg9381 I'll be sure to stay away from ceramic 6 puck disks!

I think I'm going to try to stay away from 6 puck disks all together. I'm thinking something with a strong pressure plate clamping force and a full face disk may be best for the daily driving & towing I do.

Exedy makes a 16806A that almost has enough torque rating. The description says "Flywheel Torque Rating: 326 lbs/ft" but then it says "Clutch Torque: 420 Lbs" I have no idea what "Clutch Torque" means:

"Toyota Tacoma 2001-2003, Stage 1 Organic Racing Clutch Sport Kit by EXEDY®. Ductile Casting Disc. Disc Outer Diameter: 250mm. Major Diameter: 29.8mm. Spline Teeth: 21 Teeth. Wheel Torque Rating: 272 lbs/ft. Flywheel Torque Rating: 326 lbs/ft. Clamp Load: 1985 Lbs. Clutch Torque: 420 Lbs. Up the ante with an EXEDY Stage 1 Organic Disc racing clutch kit. If you’ve bumped up your horsepower a little, and want a more robust clutch with more clamping load and only slightly higher clutch pedal effort, this is the right clutch for you."
 
#26 ·
I picked up a transmission yesterday! Here's how it went:

Me: You pulled a trans for a 98 4runner for me yesterday.
*******: It's right over here.
Me: That's an automatic
*******: You asked for an auto
Me: I need a manual
*******: I don't think 4runners had those
Me: They did. You have one. That's why I called you. It's on car-part.com
*******: Sure enough I do have one and it's already pulled.
Me: Great!
*******: I don't know where it is we pulled it over 500 days ago it's out here somewhere...
(Gathers search party of 3 more people one wearing camo pajama pants. We searched 15 minutes through hundreds of transmissions laying on the ground in various barns and many outside.)
*******: I found it! You got lucky I found it.
Me: Great!
*******: I don't feel like taking the transfer case off. How 'bout $350+$50 core.
Me: Okay!

It's from a 99 Tacoma 5vz.

 
#27 ·
South bend clutches got back to me. They don't have anything without chatter that can hold the power. :frown

"Dave - DXD Racing Clutches <dave@dxdracingclutches.com>
4:06 PM (5 hours ago)
to me
I don't have anything that will hold your power goals/ what you're doing with the truck and is street friendly without chatter.
Dave"
 
#28 ·
I found a clutch torque calculator.

http://clutch101.blogspot.com/p/clutch-torque-calculator.html?m=1

For 3rz clutch disk I am using these numbers:
Clutch plate outer diameter: 9.85" inches (250mm)
Clutch plate inner diameter: 8.6" inches (1.25" surface width is my best guess since I don't have a disk to measure and no one seems to publish the inner diameter)
 
#29 ·
At the moment I'm planning to buy an ACT T020 pressure plate that has a substantially higher but unknown clamp force and a stock Aisin DTX-137L disk. The ACT clutch is designed to mate with a .312" max to .270" min thick disk. I don't know how thick a DTX-137L disk is but hopefully it's in that range. Does anyone have a stock 3rz clutch disk laying around they can measure thickness with calipers or even a tape measure for me please?

ACT lists the T020 pressure plate combined with their ,312" thick performance street disk as capable of 435 flywheel torque capacity. That's about perfect for what I need. Unfortunately they don't offer a performance street disk for the 3rz and there is no way of knowing if the 5vz disk will fit in the 3rz flywheel (guessing it won't or they would have listed it as fitting) so the stock disk or some other disk will have to do.
 
#30 ·
Kurt,


I don't know if you explored these options but the 3VZ clutch is a smaller than the 5VZ. I think it's the same diameter than the 3RZ. Being a V6 design it could hold more torque even from the OEM to higher performance clutches. Maybe it could allow to use a more user friendly clutch.


Also as I suggest in a upper post, maybe a clutch kit made for the 2TR could be a good option to check. The 2TR is basically a 3RZ botton with a R series transmission... Could even be bolt on... I think the bearing could be the only thing to swap from an older tyoe transmission.
 
#31 ·
LCEngineering lists the 3VZ pressure plate as not fitting any other engine here: http://www.lceperformance.com/Pressure-Plate-3VZ-9-1-4-p/1053135.htm

I don't know what is different about 3VZ pressure plates but I don't think they will work on other engines due to the above information.

Here are some clutch swap findings:

2RZ and 3VZ pressure plates are meant to clamp onto a 9-1/4" (236mm) clutch disk and probably don't fit on 3RZ/5VZ/2TR flywheels.

3RZ/5VZ/2TR clutch pressure plates seem to be interchangeable and all are meant to clamp onto a 9-7/8" (250mm) disk. 3RZ/5VZ/2TR clutch disks all should fit on a a 5VZ due to the deep dished area in the center of the 5VZ flywheel. 3RZ and 2TR disks are interchangable. 5VZ disks won't fit on 3RZ or 2TR flywheels because 5VZ disks have larger diameter springs that stick out towards the flywheel.
 
#32 ·
I sent an e-mail to ask what the clamp force is for the ACT T020 pressure plate.

I got this response right away:

"Hello Kurt,
The clamp load on that pressure plate is 2,570 lbs. It is a 40% increase over the factory unit. Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.
Thanks,
Eric Weatherwax
Customer Service
Advanced Clutch Technology"

It will be a stiff clutch but ACT says it will hold 435 torque with an organic disk. I really want smooth engagement so a stiff clutch is the price I pay.

If my math is correct that means the factory 5vz clutch is 2,570/1.40= 1,836 lbs.
 
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