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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Based on the URD website description, I think this thing will fix the issue i'm having. Is anyone else using it? what's your experience?
My truck has pretty hard power loss when I come out of WOT/open loop back into closed loop. I'm using water injection to get my AFR's to 11.5:1 at WOT and it really pulls hard but when I ease my foot back and it drops to closed loop my AFRs hop back to 14.7:1 and the truck jerks pretty hard. My transmission cannot be enjoying it.
So I would like to inject during low boost/partial throttle. Am I wrong in thinking adding water/methanol during closed loop would still be negated(like gasoline) by the ECU (because of closed-loop)? When I inject during closed loop I get mild bogging.
If I understand correctly this unit will let me change to Open-loop as soon as I go into boost and therefor assume responsibility for the AFR's myself.
Truck is 98 3.4L automatic with innovate AFR and CMGS w/i.
 

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I am going to say yes it will make that transition much smoother. Makes a hell of a difference when adding fuel in boost regions. The product does not make open loop come faster it modifies the mixture during closed loop till open loop happens. Made my truck run that much smoother that I think its think its the best modification I did to it besides supercharger. And to add some more info the way my aquamist system injects it starts gradually injecting with the addition of fuel in boost regions during closed loop. Gadget can correct me if I am wrong in any way. He tuned it himself. Runs balls to the wall with his products. Aquamist and URD!

Sam
 

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I'm using it.

It allows you to go open loop at part throttle or anywhere after -5 inches of mercury to 0 on your gauge. If you look at map A on the R4 software, the fuel map shows 10 thats neutral, as you come to 0 and boost, the value goes less. That means it lowers voltage to the o2 sensor and tricks the front o2 sensor to thinking its lean so it'll correct itself by adding fuel. You cant control fuel but it just allows open loop operation during part throttle boost/closed loop. You may use your fuel controller to tune accordingly....but when it goes open loop it will probably go richer and you might not even have to retune.
 

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1. Do not inject water meth while in closed loop IT DOES NOTHING BUT HURT YOUR OUTPUT.

2. Water/meth is only good for taking care of the heat etc. created by high boost. INJECTING BEFORE 4PSI WILL ONLY HURT YOUR HP OUTPUT.

3. I bet you would have the same AFR in open loop if you unhooked the wat/meth system. THE METHANOL IS THE ONLY THING THAT COULD LOWER YOUR AFR'S AND THAT SMALL OF AN AMOUNT IS NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY NOTICABLE AFFECT ON YOUR AFR.

Do it right its worth it, get the URD kit, small pulley, and run your meth.
 

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I'm using it.

It allows you to go open loop at part throttle or anywhere after -5 inches of mercury to 0 on your gauge. If you look at map A on the R4 software, the fuel map shows 10 thats neutral, as you come to 0 and boost, the value goes less. That means it lowers voltage to the o2 sensor and tricks the front o2 sensor to thinking its lean so it'll correct itself by adding fuel. You cant control fuel but it just allows open loop operation during part throttle boost/closed loop. You may use your fuel controller to tune accordingly....but when it goes open loop it will probably go richer and you might not even have to retune.
I had an O2 calibrator when I was running just on gas and it worked great but when I went to meth injection I found that I got much better results without it. The combo of the meth and calibrator cause it to be overly rich.

I also got better MPG without it since my AFR's were leaner, this was not a problem since the meth took care of any knock.

1. Do not inject water meth while in closed loop IT DOES NOTHING BUT HURT YOUR OUTPUT.

2. Water/meth is only good for taking care of the heat etc. created by high boost. INJECTING BEFORE 4PSI WILL ONLY HURT YOUR HP OUTPUT.

3. I bet you would have the same AFR in open loop if you unhooked the wat/meth system. THE METHANOL IS THE ONLY THING THAT COULD LOWER YOUR AFR'S AND THAT SMALL OF AN AMOUNT IS NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY NOTICABLE AFFECT ON YOUR AFR.

Do it right its worth it, get the URD kit, small pulley, and run your meth.
100% incorrect.

1: I got nice gains in power by injecting methanol from 1psi on up (lowest my controller would inject). It also runs smoother/safer when it was injecting and cools down everything internally before you start boosting which is good since the supercharger likes to heat soak.

2: water/meth does a lot more then just remove heat. it also adds octane stopping knock and allowing it to run more timing. In the case of closed loop boost this is VERY important since the knock sensor is usually not active yet (sub 3k rpm). This ensures knock is not a problem in high gear/high load situations.

3: not sure what you are saying here. You do NOT want your open loop AFR's anywhere close to stoich (aka, 14.7:1). Also the methanol injection can play a MAJOR role in your AFR's depending on what mix and what size nozzle you are using. In my case without the meth working my AFR's were in the 16's+ open loop, with it turned on it dropped down to where it should be at around ~12:1. I was getting around 30% of my fuel from methanol.

The only reason you would not want to inject in low boost conditions is to save methanol as obviously you will use a fair amount more when injecting that low. This is not a problem for me since methanol is cheaper then gas.

Why he is feeling this jerk when getting out of the gas I am not sure. I never had that problem. Watch the wideband, when the jerk happens does your wideband go full lean for a split second? If so that is fuel cut, it is supposed to happen when in deceleration but it should not cause a jerk.
 

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Doesn't the split second vc2 fix this issue? I was under the impression it sends A constant voltage , Negating closed/open loop issues
No, that is not what the voltage clamp does.

It only limits the maximum voltage that is allowed to pass through.

On forced induction conversions you can flow to much air through the MAF and if the output voltage goes to high the ECU will set the P-0103 code.

Lets say the over volt code is set at 4.5 volts. You use the voltage clamp to set the max voltage to a value below that level, say 4.3 volts. Now when the voltage hits the 4.3 level only 4.3 is allowed to pass on to the ECU. When the voltage drops below that level it will track normally. This approach works very well when you use additional injector(s) to add the supplemental fuel for a forced induction conversion.

That is all the voltage clamp does. It cannot be used to tune larger than stock injectors and so on. It has no control over closed loop boost enrichment or anything else.

G
 

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Based on the URD website description, I think this thing will fix the issue i'm having. Is anyone else using it? what's your experience?
My truck has pretty hard power loss when I come out of WOT/open loop back into closed loop. I'm using water injection to get my AFR's to 11.5:1 at WOT and it really pulls hard but when I ease my foot back and it drops to closed loop my AFRs hop back to 14.7:1 and the truck jerks pretty hard. My transmission cannot be enjoying it.
So I would like to inject during low boost/partial throttle. Am I wrong in thinking adding water/methanol during closed loop would still be negated(like gasoline) by the ECU (because of closed-loop)? When I inject during closed loop I get mild bogging.
If I understand correctly this unit will let me change to Open-loop as soon as I go into boost and therefor assume responsibility for the AFR's myself.
Truck is 98 3.4L automatic with innovate AFR and CMGS w/i.
I have not seen this problem on the 3.4 before.

A couple of things to look for would be a dead spot on the throttle position sensor. If you hit a dead spot the ECU could get a throttle closed signal when it is not closed and it will engage the fuel cut function and turns off the injectors and then they suddenly turn back on again.

The other thing would be the converter clutch engaging and or disengaging suddenly if you have an auto. That can also be traced back to the TPS.

I could be wrong but it does not sound like a closed/open loop transition issue.

G
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It is only happening at/near WOT at high rpms, and it is directly correlating to when I move the throttle back from the floor. That's why I am thinking it is loop related. I hadn't thought about the TPS, I'll check it out. I think fuel being cut momentarily would cause what is happening.
If I turn the W/I off it runs at 13:5.1 open loop. W/I on I can get it to 11:1 if I try.
W/I comes on at 5psi. I do have the urd 2.2 pulley on and a 2.0 pulley that I would like to play with.
I would prefer not to get into piggybacks and standalones ((wrong platform to spend that kind of time/money in my opinion as my truck is lifted on 34" M/T's and the max power output of the 5vz is pretty well laid out)). But if the o2 calibrator will smooth out the powerband and richen up my low boost and/or let me inject w/i for the smaller pulley then i'm game..
 

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The URD O2 Sensor Calibrator will work great for transitioning into boost, or when boosting while the ECU is in closed loop mode.

I have never seen this tip out thump that you describe on the 3.4L. Don't know what would cause it other than the ideas listed. Without knowing what is causing it, it hard to say if the O2 Sensor Calibrator would address the problem, but I am kind of leaning toward that it would not. I would hate for you to spend money chasing an unknown problem only to find it has no positive effect.

I see you have an Innovate wideband. Have you tried to capture the event in a data log? That would tell you if it was AFR related or not.

G
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just checked the TPS, 11.4% at 0 and 75.7% at WOT. There are no spikes or anything. I ran it on a graph and it does not go outside those bounds. Seems to be working properly.
 

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I just bought one of these myself to improve my "older" URD fuel upgrade kit. At the advice of the G man, I removed the FTC-ESC1 connections that use to intercept the O2 signal and installed the "URD O2 Calibrator". Excuse me for butting in "here", but it was the most recent post I find with folks still discussing the calibrator. So I wanted to ask a dumb question from some of you tuning "vets". With the calibrator installed together with the older SPlit Second FTC, Does anything change in the way you tune for AFRs using the R4 software? Is there another "version" needed or do you tune as always?


setup:
98 TRD SC 5VZFE, TRD headers, URD fuel kit (x6 injectors).
URD 2,2" pulley (yielding 9-11 PSI- gasoline only)
Auto trans/IPT TC (and VB mod)
CAI
 

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o2 calibrator is wired to the front o2 sensor (intercept) Its not wired with the FTC . It'll allow you to richen up the AFR at 0 inches of mercury to boost. Part throttle boost will be better.
 

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I'm using it.

It allows you to go open loop at part throttle or anywhere after -5 inches of mercury to 0 on your gauge. If you look at map A on the R4 software, the fuel map shows 10 thats neutral, as you come to 0 and boost, the value goes less. That means it lowers voltage to the o2 sensor and tricks the front o2 sensor to thinking its lean so it'll correct itself by adding fuel. You cant control fuel but it just allows open loop operation during part throttle boost/closed loop. You may use your fuel controller to tune accordingly....but when it goes open loop it will probably go richer and you might not even have to retune.
I just bought one of these from Gadget but I am still confused. I installed it and the truck runs - but needs a tuning "touch up" since its installation.

So are AFRs now tuned through cabling to this box instead of using the FTC, which I also use? If so, then I assume there's a serial port inside? Which gender connector is in the box?

It would be nice to hear from others who have the old FTCs - that later upgraded/transferred the "O2" intercept wiring to use this newer approach.

But I do wish a manual had been compiled/included for the device (I guess I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer).

Thank you for any help.
 

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Did anyone ever dyno what the O2/AFR calibrators do? During the part throttle less that WOT condition, with the calibrator we would have a more favorable AF ratio. So the torque in this reqion should be noticeably higher. I was curious if anyone ever tried to measure this part throttle closed loop difference on a dyno?
 
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