So what's better a triangulated 4 link, or ladder bars? And about the 4 link, what's the difference between forward and reverse? One more thing, does any company make a bolt on 4link for the Taco? Latez
I think you're starting quite a discussion here...
Ladder bars are definitely not recommended for everyday street use - they don't allow the axle to "twist". They are mainly for racing.
There are several different kinds of 4-links. Parallel, triangulated, reverse triangulated, and even combinations of these.
Parallel uses 4 bars, 2 on each end of the axle, parallel to each other, and a 5th panhard bar, mounted laterally to control lateral movement. The bars can be mounted either inside or outside the frame rails. If they are mounted inside, the fuel tank will need to be relocated. I built mine with the bars mounted on the outside, so everything stayed in tact.
Triangulated uses only 4 bars total, where the two top bars are mounted at an angle to control lateral movement. This system requires the fuel tank to be moved.
Reverse triangulated is simply a triangulated system mounted behind the axle. This setup is for those who don't wish to relocate the fuel tank, but keep in mind the frame needs to be reinforced, especially if you notch it.
I always thought it was better to run the bars forward , because that way the bars just hold the axle and place and they move with the road , instead of moving against it. Its hard to explain , but just imagine a side view with and a vehicle going foward down the road and the axle going up and down.
It is better to run the bars forward. It works better, and will handle better. To back up this theory, consider no major chassis builder offers anything with the bars going backwards. The two biggest names in air suspension for trucks, airride and airlift, will both tell you not to do it. No street rod builders run the bars backwards. There is a regular poster over at sportruck.com that is a GM suspension engineer that says it is wrong. The only people that do it are those that don't want to move the gas tank. Screw that... put in a fuel cell and run the bars the right way- Forward. If having it handle better and maintain correct pinion angle aren't important to you, how about not being laughed at by people in the know.
And before the guy that has his on backwards gets all upset, they can be installed to work OK backwards. The problem is that most people that install them backwards don't have any real experience doing it, so they don't know how to make it work out. Normally they are installed with the bars going wherever they fit, and have something to weld to. This can cause the rear to lift, or squat, under acceration or braking. It can also cause large pinion angle changes.
I have had 4 trucks with 4 links on them in every configuration imagine able. All to the front, all to the back, two forward and two back. My current setup rides the best and handles the best outta all of the set ups I have rode in. Now if you know anything about 4 links you would know that no matter which way they are pointing they can be adjusted so that you dont have a crappy pinion angle.
That being said, there is a right and a wrong way to do everything.
Also side note: Not bustin your balls but Airlift and Airide dont know jack about 4 links, I suggest you call Pete and Jakes or Total Cost Involved the two largest 4 link makers on the planet for rods and customs(trucks, cars, ect ect). You can also call them and they have bars just for reverse set ups and yes there people that have street rods that run them backwards I can count about 10 ive seen right now. Guess when you grow up around hot rods and stuff you see people breaking the norm and not being a sheep and following the herd. Custom doesn't come outta a box.
The reply above was from me, guess I forgot to log back in. Also forgot to mention that I didn't use any of the mounts for any of my four links that came with the set ups as they are shitty, I also have custom crossbar for my mounts to be welded to........unlink most that get a 4 link and find a way to use those mounts.
I know quite a bit about four links, and chassis/ suspension design. And I'll share some of it with you. If the bars are ran to just "where ever" they fit, as a lot of them are, there is no way to adjust them out to work properly at all heights. The bars move in an arc, and that arc will rotate the axle housing if the bars are not put in properly. With all four bars put in forward, and parallel to each other, the axle moves in a nice smooth arc. Up or down. With virtually no pinion angle change. When the upper bars are ran to the back, with the lowers to the front, the axle rotates as it moves. The bars move in different arcs. Causing the axle to rotate as it moves. With normal springs, the amount of travel would be small, and this wouldn't be much of an issue. With airbags, and the amounts of travel we can get from them, this becomes more of a problem. The way to compensate for this is to set the bars up level at ride height. This will keep the pinion angle changes minimal at ride height. They are still going to be way off all the way up or all the way down. But you won't normally drive all the way up or down. At least not fast. But usually somewhere in the middle. If you set them up level when the truck is down, you will have massive pinion angle changes as it lifts.
And just for the record, I do build street rods. I have just went to TCI's site (www.totalcostinvolved.com) and pete and jake's site (www.peteandjake.com , but I only looked at their truck section as I didn't want to wait for the whole catalog to download.) and neither shows their four links going reverse. Or even mentions it. In fact a lot of rod chassis don't have long enough rear overhangs to do it. Look at a 28-31 Modal A chassis for example. And for AirRide not knowing [censored] about four links, their customers include some of the biggest names in the street rod industry. Could it actually be lowtaco98 doesn't know [censored], and thinks they don't because thier products don't work well when installed BACKWARDS? Hmmmmmmmm...
lowtaco98, why don't you use any of the mounts in the kits ? I just have a hard time believing airride, airlift, tci, and p&j can't get it right, but you can. Why don't you tell us how to do it ? Or maybe explain how the locations and mounting points will affect the handling... especially in regards to chassis lift, and squat ?
As I said in my first post, running the bars backwards can be made to work OK ( and I told how to do it above ), but it is better to run them forward. Relocate the gas tank and run them forward, and you will be happier. And not get laughed at.
quote "Guess when you grow up around hot rods and stuff you see people breaking the norm and not being a sheep and following the herd. Custom doesn't come outta a box. "
Just to let you know who I am, I am attaching a photo of the rear suspension on my truck. I am not a sheep, but an innovator. Four links are old news... If you want to play with the big boys, you gotta go independent...
Never said you were a "sheep" but 90% are, and I am not, My truck has 45,000 miles on my 4 Link and suspension work and ive had 0 problems, I cant say the same for the other 4 link setups ive had. Your work is nice, but its been done on hot rods and is just about as common as a four link. The reason we changed our mount cause of the way we did the cross bar........their mounts just were what we were looking for. I think you took me the wrong way in all this. I never refered to you as being a crappy fabricator or anything just proving the point that a reverse 4 link can be done and work VERY well not just "ok" as you put it and if 45,000 miles of driving(13 states now) dont prove that just wait im sure there willl be another 45,000 more coming on it, I drive my truck daily and it see's all the conditions and shity road work. My whole point in this matter was, most people buy that gay ass bolt on kit and think they got something custom, and they dont know what they are doing. My truck is done correct I have full adjustablitiy and I can drive at 100psi or 0psi I my pinion angle stays awesome well away from vibration and cause excess wear.
And just because Airide sells alot of products doesn't mean they have all the answers. That would be like saying McDonalds sells alot of hamburgers they must be the best you can get.
I wouldn't know how to explain what its like to get "squat" cause well I floor it and all I get is go......not wheel hop shifting I dont have those problems that ive seen a million times on rides.
Again nice work on your truck, but maybe you should step back and realize some people do know how to reverse a 4 link and make it work better than "OK".
Keep it up and your IP address will be permenantly banned. CustomTacos will NOT tolerate hateful posting. This is a friendly community designed for Tacoma owners to have fun. Take your immaturity somewhere else.
This is the initial IRSd_mini. My last post was the one with the photo. The one's arguing and trying to cause trouble are someone else. I guess that's what I get for using an unregistered name. Brandt, I never meant any disrespect to you. You very well might be able to get the reverse to work out. I can do it. And a lot of shops can, and do. But a lot of people that don't understand this stuff can't. And if someone here has the info that can help them, they should.
OK I registered my user name.
Let me apologize for what happened in this post. There is someone very immature here. Someone used my name to start an arguement. I emailed lowtaco98 about it. I also emailed the moderator. Hopefully he can track the IP adresses.