Dear CT i have failed..

[Firdaddy]

This is half info half venting..skip to the end for cliffs..
For year now i have been having problems with blowing out spark and having to run such a small plug gap that i'm losing power.. So fast forward a couple of years when i help my friend swap a 1jz into a supra.. through my knowledge of blowing out spark, i helped him the best i could.. well through a mutual friend who works on mainly chevy's, we learned that ls truck cils are good for up to 300+hp per cylinder.. after he went standalone, he swapped in ls coils in his supra and opened up the plug gap.. the difference as beyond day and night. It idled perfectly and ran ike a scalded ape.. such an improvement that i always said i would do the same to my truck when i could.. well after rebuilding my engine and fixing about everything else, i decided to go for it.
So i ripped out the harness, and soldered in the ls coil harness.. well it started up first try and ran for a whopping 2 seconds before dying.. and the same again and again and again. Through my research i discovered several things.. first is that the ls and toyota coils have completely different feedback signals to the ecu. the toyota coils use a flat pulsed signal, these signals are known as igf signals. .. the ls coils have a more peaked grounded signal..
So ls coils did not work on the stock ecu as is. more and more research led to mostly supra owners running e-manage piggybacks, having a problem with the igf signal not being generated due to the ignighter being bypassed.. so after reading through it all i saw that some had made a chip using a npn transistor to take the coil firing signal and through the transistor , create a igf signal and feed it back to the ecu.
so after making the same chip myself, i installed it.. and it did not work at all for me. i tried switching up several things.. After three weeks of trying everything i could try and with no success, ive soldered back in the stock coils..
I must say though that i feel gutted.. ive never worked so hard and long on something to fail in the end .. the sad part is that th coils would run just fine given the ecu wasn't so pissed off at the igf signal..
The only good news in all of this being that i'm going to convert to a standalone at the first of the year and this problem will be a distant memory.
so in closing, if you every think of running ls coils, good luck to you

Cliffs: Tried to run ls coil's on the stock taco ecu.. tried everything, it didnt work out.

[mitzu]

yea, **** the stock ECU!!! Good luck going standalone! Which one do you plan on using?
At least now you have the LS coils

[671taco]

Originally Posted by Firdaddy

This is half info half venting..skip to the end for cliffs..
For year now i have been having problems with blowing out spark and having to run such a small plug gap that i'm losing power.. So fast forward a couple of years when i help my friend swap a 1jz into a supra.. through my knowledge of blowing out spark, i helped him the best i could.. well through a mutual friend who works on mainly chevy's, we learned that ls truck cils are good for up to 300+hp per cylinder.. after he went standalone, he swapped in ls coils in his supra and opened up the plug gap.. the difference as beyond day and night. It idled perfectly and ran ike a scalded ape.. such an improvement that i always said i would do the same to my truck when i could.. well after rebuilding my engine and fixing about everything else, i decided to go for it.
So i ripped out the harness, and soldered in the ls coil harness.. well it started up first try and ran for a whopping 2 seconds before dying.. and the same again and again and again. Through my research i discovered several things.. first is that the ls and toyota coils have completely different feedback signals to the ecu. the toyota coils use a flat pulsed signal, these signals are known as igf signals. .. the ls coils have a more peaked grounded signal..
So ls coils did not work on the stock ecu as is. more and more research led to mostly supra owners running e-manage piggybacks, having a problem with the igf signal not being generated due to the ignighter being bypassed.. so after reading through it all i saw that some had made a chip using a npn transistor to take the coil firing signal and through the transistor , create a igf signal and feed it back to the ecu.
so after making the same chip myself, i installed it.. and it did not work at all for me. i tried switching up several things.. After three weeks of trying everything i could try and with no success, ive soldered back in the stock coils..
I must say though that i feel gutted.. ive never worked so hard and long on something to fail in the end .. the sad part is that th coils would run just fine given the ecu wasn't so pissed off at the igf signal..
The only good news in all of this being that i'm going to convert to a standalone at the first of the year and this problem will be a distant memory.
so in closing, if you every think of running ls coils, good luck to you

Cliffs: Tried to run ls coil's on the stock taco ecu.. tried everything, it didnt work out.

My buddy would be able to make it work with the megasquirt! Why didn't you just go this route??? lol Hit me up when you're ready!

[Chris D.]

I'll be running the ms3x a few months into 2013.

Are the LS coils a physical direct bolt in other than the wiring/compatability issues?
I've read the LS coils are only good upto around 200hp per.
Any pictures?

Its not a failure, you just have to change a few things around the coils to make em work.

[Texas_Ace]

LS coils are good but there are a few different kinds. The LS1 suck. The LS2 are better. The best are the LS truck coils from the flex fuel trucks. Do a search and you can see the comparison. The truck coils have a heat sink on them.

That said the LS coils are not true COP, they are coil per plug. The coils are mounted separate from the plugs.

I am surprised the stock coils are not enough, stock 1zz/2zz coils are common coils for turbo toyotas and have been used for over 800whp on E98 (very hard to ignite). Could see if one of those coils will bolt in place. Might even use the same connector.

Although since toyota uses those same coils for pretty much everything I am surprised that the 2rz/3rz doesn't use them as well.

[Firdaddy]

Originally Posted by mitzu

yea, **** the stock ECU!!! Good luck going standalone! Which one do you plan on using?
At least now you have the LS coils

i'm going with megasquirt through 671taco's buddy

Originally Posted by 671taco

My buddy would be able to make it work with the megasquirt! Why didn't you just go this route??? lol Hit me up when you're ready!

i know it will work with the ms, that was not my goal.. i wanted to see if it could be done and to help out the taco community

Originally Posted by Texas_Ace

LS coils are good but there are a few different kinds. The LS1 suck. The LS2 are better. The best are the LS truck coils from the flex fuel trucks. Do a search and you can see the comparison. The truck coils have a heat sink on them.

That said the LS coils are not true COP, they are coil per plug. The coils are mounted separate from the plugs.

I am surprised the stock coils are not enough, stock 1zz/2zz coils are common coils for turbo toyotas and have been used for over 800whp on E98 (very hard to ignite). Could see if one of those coils will bolt in place. Might even use the same connector.

Although since toyota uses those same coils for pretty much everything I am surprised that the 2rz/3rz doesn't use them as well.

i'm aware of the celica coils being pretty damn good for coil on plugs, however i got the ls coils for free since a friend owed me money and i am familiar with them.. i do know that the 1zz coils will work eletronically and the ecu will accept them, i am however unaware if they are the correct length to work on a 2rz nor if the plug is the same, not that it really matters if you can get hold of the pigtails


on a side note, i'm pretty sure i could have made the ls coils work if i wired in an igniter to create an igf signal, however adding on things like a igniter defeats the purpose of what i was doing as i see that as moving backwards..

[671taco]

Got you bro! Good looking out for the taco community!

[NVTACO]

damn that would piss me off. i wonder if you could get a resistor or something to replicate the igf signal

[Firdaddy]

Originally Posted by NVTACO

damn that would piss me off. i wonder if you could get a resistor or something to replicate the igf signal

The igf signal is a pulsed ground, the igt is a 5v positive.. So you can't use a simple resistor.. That's why I went with a transistor. It takes the 5v signal, and when it pulses it connects the igf wire to ground. Basically a transistor is a fast switching relay.. More to the point, the igt pulse lasts a total of 3 milliseconds at idle and 1.7 ms at top Rpm's also which I found odd.. The ecu outputs a 5v positive signal at all times from the ecu, so basically due to grounding out from the igf from the coil packs it drops to 0v when it ignites the plug..

[Texas_Ace]

Originally Posted by Firdaddy

The igf signal is a pulsed ground, the igt is a 5v positive.. So you can't use a simple resistor.. That's why I went with a transistor. It takes the 5v signal, and when it pulses it connects the igf wire to ground. Basically a transistor is a fast switching relay.. More to the point, the igt pulse lasts a total of 3 milliseconds at idle and 1.7 ms at top Rpm's also which I found odd.. The ecu outputs a 5v positive signal at all times from the ecu, so basically due to grounding out from the igf from the coil packs it drops to 0v when it ignites the plug..

My guess is the longer pulse is due to a longer dwell time at high RPM.

Most OEM setups will vary the dwell time throughout the RPM range/load range and voltage range. They figure why have more spark then you need. It will help the coils last longer.

Might try logging the pulse to the coil as well to see is it correlates with the dwell time.