Engine compartment venting, air scoops, brake vents

[Musashi]

Wanted to throw this out here to get ideas from others...

Seems to me that we could use that air dam we create with the front of our trucks and turn it into something useful. Perhaps redirecting some cool air to the brakes or exhaust system.

Engine compartment vents out the side might help along these lines.
Maybe put some light ducting under the scoop and redirect onto the exhaust and/or brakes. Maybe toward an alternate intercooler location to give the radiator relief?
What might be good for ultralight ducting material?

Maybe redirect around dual chiller boxes for cold intake? Those side grill triangles may as well get used for something!

[MikeX]

I don't think there would be much room for ducting due to the engine cover. You could take that off, but it would still be tight under there, although I haven't measured it myself. I know others have cut out the blockage to let air in without ducting.

[Blangkang]

I don't think there would be much room for ducting due to the engine cover. You could take that off, but it would still be tight under there, although I haven't measured it myself. I know others have cut out the blockage to let air in without ducting.



oh theres room, when I made my intake I had it lifted up to get the air from the scoop.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/254965010/352910857OrJNne

[00yota4x4]

does that intake actually work
Can you please show more pics and tell me how you did this...I wanna give it a try

[MikeX]

Blangkang,

I see your intake, that's a good illustration. I looked at the last 2 pics on your webshots also, what are you trying to show there by pulling the X-Runner plastic pieces away from the truck?

[BoostError]

Blangkang,

I see your intake, that's a good illustration. I looked at the last 2 pics on your webshots also, what are you trying to show there by pulling the X-Runner plastic pieces away from the truck?



Looks like he got hit. Blang, a second accident? http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif

[RedXrunner]

Hey Blang is that the Volant??? How is it working out for you??

[00yota4x4]

Looks home made to me.. Looks like a rubber 90degree elbo and a piece of pipe and the intake on it

[RedXrunner]

Ya he did say, "When I made my intake...", so I gues it was a stupid question. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gifDrrrrrr...

[Blangkang]

LOL yes that was my intake, I took it off but will be putting it back on soon to see if it will help on the 1/4. Ill get more pics tonight when I get off work. It does work make it much louder. Also for the org post I think that removing the fog lights would be better for the brakes rather then use the scoop. The air has to hit the bumper and of done right it cool the brakes if you really wanna go that far. That might be my next project. I don't need no stiken fog lights

[Blangkang]

Blangkang,

I see your intake, that's a good illustration. I looked at the last 2 pics on your webshots also, what are you trying to show there by pulling the X-Runner plastic pieces away from the truck?



Looks like he got hit. Blang, a second accident? http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif



NO the truck is fine, I just got her repainted and they havn't got the seal in yet. It will be fixed very soon

[drift]

As far as cooling, I dont see a big need for additional air flow in stock configuration. But if your looking for something, adding heat wrap can reduce over 50 degrees of under hood temps, ceramic coating can reduce up to 100 degrees of UHT - but thats on a hot boosted engine. I can tell you that lowering your UHT is a pretty cheap way to gain extra hp (or rather, lose less hp by increasing effeciency). Ive seen a 10-20hp dyno gain on coated & wrapped supras. (for real!)

If anything adding slots or vents on the hood will induct more air to flow up through the engine, effectively cooling the important parts. More effective than using our fake-hood-scoop. Hood scoops really are for either shoving air into a ram style intake (puke), shoving air through a top mounted intercooler or shoving air on a supercharger. Venting out is much more effective for total engine cooling. I have seen this to be not true in certain circumstances, the supra has a runner/scoop attached to the block that feeds air from the stock airscoop to cylinders #5/#6 (the most problamatic of them all). The funny thing is that the stock scoop was only found on euro versions, put they retained the runner attached to the engine on all markets. Some call it "the snorkle"

Has anyone dyno'd their results with any intakes? I know many times you gain peak hp at the cost of low rpm power using intakes, especially if theres a butterfly type valve or other restrictor that ends up getting removed.

Any ideas?

[Blangkang]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attachment.php?postid=95532
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attachment.php?postid=95505

[Musashi]

I'm studying the engine compartment airflow to optimize cooling and to reduce the amount of air we push at higher speeds. Because of the large frontal surface of the truck we are at a really big aerodynamic disadvantage. The tall windshield/cab could probably be chopped, the large frontal pieces could be removed. But removing them allows large amounts of air into the engine compartment. That's when venting or ducting came into the picture. May as well use the cool rushing air for something eh?
Anyway there would need to be some kind of exhaust vent (air in.. air out). A streamlined flow could provide cooling as well as relieving the air pressure front we create at higher speeds. Could probably tell just from highway driving gas mileage figures. I am also worried about creating an imbalance in certain parts of the engine. Don't want one part cooler than others to prevent cracks, warping and different cylinder combustion needs. Hmm... another thread to discuss engine hot spots might be in order here. Darn I wish I still had my Dad's auto shop to play in. It's so much easier with a large floor and good tools....... *sigh*.

[Blangkang]

well you put some good points, i just don't think you could get it so cold that it would crack the block or something. I think that the best way to cool the brakes would be to remove the fogs lighst and duct some air tubes to the brakes...thats so easy and would work great. My scoop works with my intake so that covered..what else...

[drift]

As mentioned above, there is really no fear cracking anything using air-cooling. Lowering the vehicle's overall height can improve aerodynamics. As far as improving over all frontal drag, allowing air to rush into the engine bay wont make any measurable difference. The flow of air is still being altered and/or slowed down. Now if you made ducts from the front of the car all the way thru and out the back, then maybe that idea would make measurable difference. It would be cool if we could chop a few inches off the top, but having 4 door frames to alter it wouldnt be practical (hotrods often dont have frames over the windows themselves).

You could add a cone to the front of the truck! :-)

Atleast we dont have to worry about lift over the drive wheels. Just speculation, maybe adding a tonneau cover or even a truck-canopy could improve overall aerodynamics. Adding strategically placed canards could help direct air over and around the front more effeciently. One thing I do like about having a huge front-end is the ability to large radiators and intercoolers. If your looking for track performance aerodyamics isnt a a large concern as it mainly helps achieve top-speed.

Cooling your brakes using the fog-light housing is a great idea, or somehow utilizing some of the air dam, definetly a proven practice. It would be kick ass if enough people got together to have cf/fb duct guides fabricated.

Just remember certain angular shapes are more aerodynamic than curved surfaces - a popular misconception.

I appreciate the spirit amongst the xrunner owners, thats what it takes to get the parts you want realized.

Cheers!

[Blangkang]

Does anyone think that making cooling ducts to the front brakes would even help? I think that it might help in like auto cross or road coarse

[Blangkang]

what about cooling the TB.....
http://www.customtacos.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=572486&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

[00yota4x4]

I dont know if its gonna help that much..Brakes are just to small. Plus it looks like the fog lights sit kinda high almost above the brakes. Is there enough room to even make a duct that would benifit.

[Blangkang]

I crawled under there and it could be done, it wont be a straight path but it could work

[Kgrgunman]

I dont know if its gonna help that much..Brakes are just to small. Plus it looks like the fog lights sit kinda high almost above the brakes. Is there enough room to even make a duct that would benifit.



then lower the truck and they'll be closer to even

[Jonathan]

do this for me guys. put water or something infront of the hood scoop. then go drive. all this talk about cold air intake and using the hood for air wont work. the shape of the truck has the air go OVER the scoop, which is why water will just chill there, even at 65 mph. wenting the brakes might do something, but i dont think much since the stock brakes are so underpowered before you have to worry about overheating them.

[Blangkang]

do this for me guys. put water or something infront of the hood scoop. then go drive. all this talk about cold air intake and using the hood for air wont work. the shape of the truck has the air go OVER the scoop, which is why water will just chill there, even at 65 mph. wenting the brakes might do something, but i dont think much since the stock brakes are so underpowered before you have to worry about overheating them.



LOL your joking right? the water starts to fling onto the windshield meaning that the air is hitting the scoop. Thats why the under side of the scoop is all dirty

[Musashi]

There's partial truth in both statements about the hood scoop. It's not good as a forced induction, but it will pass some air. I took mine off just to see what would happen and the top of the inner engine cover got a little dirty but not much. The way Blang was/is using it is effective because the cone under the opening would suck in air. Might be the way to go because of lack of turbulence yet cooled air. (BTW, great idea Blang, I liked it).

On another note, I noticed vents on the front portion of the forward wheel wells that seem to be allowing air into the front wheel well. Brake cooling to a small degree may have been already engineered by Toyota. The lower opening would allow air to compress and go to the sides, enter through the vents and cool the wheelwell cavity.

It sure is fun discovering things about something new, don't you think?

Mus

[Blangkang]

Well thanks for the props on my inatake. I think it does help and racing another X runner a handfull of times will only prove that. I know that the scoop gets some air because the underside of my scoop is a bit dirty. I don't plan on running my intake soon as winter hits because it's not worth the risk. I have a few things up my sleeve right now (not turbo) that I am dying to try out. I am not 100% if I am following you on the brake coolers, I only see one side that has cuts in the plastic and thats on the pass side maybe to allow better air flow for the stocl intake.

[00yota4x4]

I think the intake works pretty good..Did it to my truck yesterday. Truck really sounds pissed now cause of it.

[Blangkang]

Yup I think it works pretty good, I would like to use a flat K&N filter so it would use more air but who knows. I know ill be getting more from my truck with a good tune...which is coming

[Musashi]

BTW, for those with the oil impregnated filters, I was told by my dealer friend that those things have caused Check Engine lights when overoiled. Is this true and how much over oiling is necessary? Was interested in these filters till I heard about this prob. Also has anyone tried the TRD drop ins? Any good? Aren't they oiled also?

[drift]

You can fix the CEL by cleaning the af sensor with alcohol and resetting the cel.
It happens but usually only right after being oiled heavily. I havent witnessed it in cars Ive owned however.

Typically IMO the gain is not enough for me to drop much money into intakes as a sole mod (esp on na engines). Ive seen 15hp gains on an intake I had for a 99 Celica (the newest model) - however I lost about 17hp under 3,000rpms - (this was the GTS 2zzge 1.8l)

[fabtaco]

BTW, for those with the oil impregnated filters, I was told by my dealer friend that those things have caused Check Engine lights when overoiled. Is this true and how much over oiling is necessary? Was interested in these filters till I heard about this prob. Also has anyone tried the TRD drop ins? Any good? Aren't they oiled also?

They are notorious for ruining MAF's

[Musashi]

Hey Blang, you're right about that fender vent. Thought it was on both sides but forgot about the intake vent in the fender. Wonder how that vent really works. Cools the wheel well to cool the air within? hmmmm

I was also wondering how effective the ground effects are. Aren't they meant to be only 2-3 inches off the ground to be effective? Looks like Toyota expected this truck to be dropped but then makes the rear hangers too close to the frame so you can't just shorten by using lowered mounts or shorter shackles.... Don't like the idea of blocks but......

[Musashi]

Going back to the air dam topic, I also was wondering how much water would get into the engine compartment during heavy rain. I know that quite a bit went into the scoop when I test drove it in light rain...

Do vented hoods work well? They look kinda gaudy to me but they also look like they would work well. I'd prefer side vents for the looks as well as to keep any smoke off the windshield when the twin turbos decide to melt the heads..hahaha... No, I don't have any...yet.

The tonneau cover seems to work well in many ways. Besides blocking air to the tailgate, it also weighed down the back and really made the ride much smoother. However I noticed the level of the lights are sukoshi higher and the birds love to bomb it...... Anybody think of any thing else the tonneau cover could be used for besides hiding the trick rear end treatment, NOS bottles, CO2 bottles, and beer bottles? hahahaha...........

[Blangkang]

do this for me guys. put water or something infront of the hood scoop. then go drive. all this talk about cold air intake and using the hood for air wont work. the shape of the truck has the air go OVER the scoop, which is why water will just chill there, even at 65 mph. wenting the brakes might do something, but i dont think much since the stock brakes are so underpowered before you have to worry about overheating them.



http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attachment.php?postid=95505

ok for those who didn't read the thread yes the scoops does work, look at the pic above it's off a 05 4runner and yes your eyes are seeing thats a inner cooler, so that right bitches it works so all the haters can kiss my ass

[Madmax]

I dont know how much good this would do...But, What if from the fenderwell where the intake draws the air from a duct is run to the lower opening in the grill with a scoop that would draw air in from that location. Wouldnt that draw Cooler air Now i know the distance it has to travel would not make it useful for ram air, but it couldnt hurt as far as "Cold Air" goes. I mean as it is the air is being pulled from the well in the fender that isnt all that cool. Does it really make all that difference if the air is just coming from furthur away?

Another thing ive been looking into is Electric cooling fans to replace the engine driven. What are the pros and cons of either setup. These would be the first two mods id like to do to my X and just wanted input before i dropped the cash and wasnt happy about it.

Last thing, Anyone know much about the Tornado Air kits you install in your existing intake, and throttle body spacers. Im a complete novice when it comes to engine mods and ive heard mixed arguments for all of the above. Just looking for some expertise out there and it seems like im in the right place. Another thought about Tail end getting squirrely at higher speeds...i know spoilers and wings are more of a ricer thing, but how much benefit would a modified wing that could be installed on the bed tracks do to keep the a$$ end down.

My primary goal is to get better fuel economy for the 95% of my driving, And performance for the other 5 when i like toplay. Would these mods benefit the direction im trying to go?

[KAuss]

I dont know how much good this would do...But, What if from the fenderwell where the intake draws the air from a duct is run to the lower opening in the grill with a scoop that would draw air in from that location. Wouldnt that draw Cooler air Now i know the distance it has to travel would not make it useful for ram air, but it couldnt hurt as far as "Cold Air" goes. I mean as it is the air is being pulled from the well in the fender that isnt all that cool. Does it really make all that difference if the air is just coming from furthur away?

Another thing ive been looking into is Electric cooling fans to replace the engine driven. What are the pros and cons of either setup. These would be the first two mods id like to do to my X and just wanted input before i dropped the cash and wasnt happy about it.

Last thing, Anyone know much about the Tornado Air kits you install in your existing intake, and throttle body spacers. Im a complete novice when it comes to engine mods and ive heard mixed arguments for all of the above. Just looking for some expertise out there and it seems like im in the right place. Another thought about Tail end getting squirrely at higher speeds...i know spoilers and wings are more of a ricer thing, but how much benefit would a modified wing that could be installed on the bed tracks do to keep the a$$ end down.

My primary goal is to get better fuel economy for the 95% of my driving, And performance for the other 5 when i like toplay. Would these mods benefit the direction im trying to go?



How high of a speed are you talking about when you get start losing traction? I find the truck to be rather stable up to 90 mph, I can literally feel the four corners at 90... I never got up to 100 yet tho... It does feel sorta sloppy if you hit a bump sometimes, the suspension oscillate the motion for a good while before it settles down again tho...

On some long bends here on 101, there are a few spots that have uneven lanes with bumps in them... When the truck's suspension rebounds, you can feel a lot of the weight lifted and the truck will gravitate towards the outside of the turn, but once the truck heads earth bound again, you can feel it grip but not once did the rear come loose...

Having a spoiler also lowers your MPG btw, thats more air resistance so it'll contradict with what you're trying to achieve...

As for the Tornado... If you see it on TV for $20 and it should save you about $20 after 2 fillups, trust me it don't work... If you Google about it, you'll see that it has a lot of people say that it clogs air intake more than it helps...

I'm on the same boat with the ratio of 95% -> 5%... I find if you want a good reliable everyday truck, just lower the weight if you can... Nothing too extreme, but if you can find a way to make the front ligther and lighter, you'll gain performance all around... Nitrous has been talked about and would suit you perfect because thats performance on demand, but you'll have to be the guinie pig there...

We had a CF hood thread started not too long ago, but everyone wants a hood scooped CF vs a non scooped one... Not enough people wanted in so the deal was a no go...

F/I kits are in the works since day one, however waiting is the only thing anyone can do in that department...

As for fuel econ, you're not going to do much mod wise to save fuel... That lies with the driving habit... Most folks that drive freeway to work and what not can see a good 18 mpg which IMO is real good, but for me... My last 10 or so tanks have been 14.3 > 14.7 mpg with 75% local and sparingly freeway... I did however get a 14.9 when I was moving with my truck... With 4 truck loads full of stuff and stop signs ever few blocks, I managed to gain mpg vs me alone with no load and 2K shifts... http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif Then I tried to rev the truck higher in the lower gears before a shift and same thing, 14.3 > 14.7... I've tried all kinds of driving styles, but I just don't care now and WOT when there is ample room to stop for fun... I get the same mpg anyways LOL...

[Musashi]

I strongly believe that the best way to gain mileage and performance is to optimize the fuel feed and lower reciprocating/rotational mass. This includes the tires and wheels.

I shall be looking into Gadget's tuning devices to optimize the fuel ratio. Cool air kits will probably improve mileage virtually because they open up the air feed more than anything else, I believe. Can't confirm until I get the tuning tools tho. As far as exhaust goes, I like a very silent exhaust so won't be touching that but there are some things to look out for. For example, the common practice is to open up the pipe size at the engine to allow freeing exhaust. However, if the exhaust is tuned to compliment scavenging in the low to mid range, it may be best to stay with factory specs. However, opening up downline may prove beneficial as the gas has already expanded and just needs room and streamlining to move. Toyota needed to maximize ratings for EPA mileage and probably did a lot of work in this area, so I'm staying stock on the exhaust for now.

The reason I chose the Tacoma over the Tundra was because the engine is much shorter and yet the bore size is substantial. With a shorter crankshaft, there is a lot less rotational mass. Nothing much we can do without going internal but it is a major consideration. This engine also has the ability to use 87 Octane fuel, which is okay if you're not loading the engine. Haven't tried to optimize fuel cost in this way tho because there are too many hills and passing opportunities (heh heh, new term for gas em) when I drive my Taco around. If driving on flat ground or unloaded cruising, you may be able to add up pennies with lower octane fuel (just a thought, not proven of course).

Minimized use of the air conditioning is a big factor.

Driving style is also helpful if you start off smoothly and cruise in neutral a lot. Need to pay close attention when in neutral though.

Cutting curb weight always helps but in a lesser degree than reciprocating/rotational mass tho. Popular practice in decades past was use tall but slim tires. Tall in those days were what we have stock now though. Drawback here is stopping power so you need to pay attention to traffic conditions.

My two cents....


Mus

[Madmax]

Thanks for the input guys. As far as what im getting by "milking" the gears. I only drive to and from work at 30 MPH i live on an Air Force base. Im getting approx 19-21 mpg on this tank by shifting at 2k and i havnt taken the engine over 2500 rpms this tank. Its an amazing increase from 15 last tank. Im only at 900 miles on the truck so breakin is still an issue.

But from what im taking out of what you have said, is that a cold air could help but marginally. And the spoiler would completly defeat the purpose (unnecassary also) As far at traction at higher speeds im in TX, there are not any smooth roads out here, they all are bumpy so i guess im SOL in that department. Now the throttle body spacers...maybe i missed something in the reading, but are those useless also?

"I strongly believe that the best way to gain mileage and performance is to optimize the fuel feed and lower reciprocating/rotational mass."

Does this include the engine driven Fan?

Lastly, the Tornado TV thing. Ive read about them as well and a lot of negative, but a buddy of mine put one in a blazer. he does a lot of highways miles and he gained 8 mpg. I know it sounds crazy, but for 20$ its worth a shot ya know. Im really just curious if anyone with Tacos have tried em. i mean every truck is different and every intake is set up differently, not much, but different.

Thanks for all the input.

[KAuss]

The reason why your buddy seen the improvement in mileage is becasue of the clog in the intake... The ECU balances fuel / air ratio while in closed loop and since the engine is seeing less air, (pretty much a detuned engine) it will get less gas... This has been beat to death on the Tornado product over at the open review sites...

As far as crusing in nuetral... This truck don't help too much... I've bitched about this too (yes I got a complaint about everything remember?) because, according to the folks here, the new drive by wire system keeps the engine revs above idle when you engauge in nuetral until the truck is completely stopped...

I coast a LOT because I'm just used to it... In my Integra, I can squeeze 25 mpg with all local driving easy and 30 plus with freeway miles... Freeway travel and local travel can give or take put 3 miles either way... In the XR however, I'm seeing 14s across the boards...

My shift habbits now after my many style changes are 3K 1st gear, 2.5K 2nd gear, and 2K each gear after if the road is open... If in traffic I shift way before I even hit 2K and sometimes before 1.5K (especially 1st > 2nd)

My cruise RPM is always 1.5K or lower too... I got 3500 miles on her now, I don't even care if it improves... As long as my tires are still good I'm fine...

[Jonathan]

kauss, bogging it doesnt help. i shift normally at 3.5, 3k, but wth very little throttle (low load) and i am seeing 18-20 in stop and go.

[KAuss]

When I'm in traffic with no room to accelerate, I shift early just like I would roll a stop sign in 2nd... When there is room to accelerate, I shift at 3K out of 1st like I said... There is no point to stay in 1st to roll stop and gos if you can do it in 2nd... Works wonders in the truck cause theres hella torque compared to anything else I've driven...

I can yet again change my style and give it another go tho... According to you, you must cruise at what 2.5K?

[Jonathan]

usually i will put it in sixth if i am not accelerating at all, otherwise, i dont bog it down, its not the rpm that saves gas mileage i dont think, its the throttle position.

[KAuss]

yeap I agree a lot on that, but when I gas it, I usually downshift into 4th from 6th or 3rd from 5th on the freeway...

I usually ride 3rd or 4th up pretty good on an on-ramp (the only fun you can get out of a stick legally) then shift 5th and 6th without gasing... But I mash it in 3rd or 4th http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif...

In traffic, I don't even gas, I just let the engine idle roll the truck to the next stop, this is why I shift so early... The truck don't bog, it just keeps rolling with my foot off the gas... I use 1st only to get past inertia...

I have a heavy 1st gear > 2nd gear foot when I'm first in line tho... I know this is where most of my gas is going... However my habbits with the Integra is the same and it shows a difference when I local or highway... In the XR however it don't... I generally cruise at 2K in 6th on the freeway... which is less than street cruise but at a much higher speed... I still get 14.3 > 14.7 =P

I don't know if I can last a whole tank without being heavy foot in 1st... Once I feel clutch engauged, I just lead foot it... Get that sucker to 3K then quick shift it into 2nd... Then I don't even gas after I get into 3rd...

I'll give it a try tho... Being I fill up about 16.5 gallons a visit, if I get say 16 mpg I'll end up with maybe another 20 miles on my tank haha... Thats good for 3 one way trips to work http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

Edit: Another thing that differs tho that I notice a lot is the coasting RPM... I pretty much coast a lot to save gas... It works in the Integra becasue the RPM drops to idle instantly once I'm in nuetral... In the XR, the RPMs stay up until the truck slows down... Even in nuetral... This IMO waste a lot of my gas because I'm coasting all the time during local travel but it isn't showing up... It irks me sometimes because it's really hard to feather the amount needed during a rev match because the engine keeps the RPM up automatically... I got used to it, but I can't do it with heavy soul shoes... Sometimes I drop 2 gears just so I rev match it better to keep the clutch happy...

[00yota4x4]

usually i will put it in sixth if i am not accelerating at all, otherwise, i dont bog it down, its not the rpm that saves gas mileage i dont think, its the throttle position.


Yea its the throttle.
If you are pushing 3500rpm and have the foot off the gas you are not using anymore gas then idle because the engine is slowing itself down. You would use more gas having half throttle at 2500rpm in 6th then 4grand in 2nd with the foot barly touching the throttle since you are not getting more air to feed more fuel

[KAuss]

But isn't it true you're almost doubling the strokes?

[Jonathan]

your mom goes to college

[00yota4x4]

but its still only pushing in as much fuel as needed..if it was giving it more fuel the truck would not be slowing down.

[KAuss]

I'm just gonna try it... Most likely won't happen tho... It's 2nd nature my foot goes 1/2 way down in 1st gear... Extra 20 miles on a tank will be kick ass in the long run but if I live tank to tank I probably won't miss it...

[Musashi]

Wow, you guys drive really aggressively compared to me. I shift at 10, 20 30, 40 and 50 miles and hour on flat roads. If you listen to the exhaust, (ya gotta turn off the sub blaster for a few days) you'll hear it get louder under load. It's the same type of sound that you'll hear when you get to 2500/3000 rpm when you give it half throttle. Anyway, under load you may need to upshift/downshift depending whether you're going down/up hill. I've noticed 1 or 2 mph differences when I don't hear my exhaust growl. But of course it may be more because

I DO LOVE TO GAS EM.... A LOT.. muahahahaha...


Mus

[Madmax]

Well i agree with you, I shift at or below those speeds. With all thats been said im still not taking the rpms above 2500 this tank just to see.

Seems this thread has turned to Fuel economy and driving habits more than the original topic. I apologize.

[KAuss]

You know what, I just noticed that when I was driving to and from work today... I tried to feel my pedal modulation... My foot is NEVER heavier than the amount it takes to keep 2K in any gear... So my foot isn't lead at all... I cruise in 1.5K all day and get crap mileage... My needle just drops around 50 miles in on the tank... Even if that 50 miles was freeway... Same for local... http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif

[Musashi]

Topic drifting is the nature of this forum and I enjoy the brainstorming. Adds to the adventure of trying to remember where you saw that particle piece of information that you now need so badly... hahaha..

[MountainBiker]

Continuing the thread stealing! http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif


Edit: Another thing that differs tho that I notice a lot is the coasting RPM... I pretty much coast a lot to save gas... It works in the Integra becasue the RPM drops to idle instantly once I'm in nuetral... In the XR, the RPMs stay up until the truck slows down... Even in nuetral... This IMO waste a lot of my gas because I'm coasting all the time during local travel but it isn't showing up...


You will save more gas if you leave it in gear and stay off the throttle as you coast down to 1200 rpm. In this condition, the ECM cuts all fuel, and you are running a dry air charge. If you don't believe me, do some searching on Fuel Cut mode.

[Madmax]

OK in reply to both of these statements. First Kauss are you saying your idle doesnt drop down when you go to Nuetral, if so thats funny, Mine drops below 1k even with ac on. Now something else funny i noticed today is that as i slowed to a stop it also increased up to 1.5k and then dropped off again to 1.2k. No idea why...once again this is all with AC in Low position. Maybe someone could halp me, and you as well out here. Ive never seen that in any manual tranny vehicle ive owned. When i drop out of gear the rpms drop off unless the ac kicks in. so Hmmm is all i have to say about that.


As far as the fuel cut, im going read more about that right now, because i wasnt aware that made a diff.

and finally in reply to early convo. The logic behind driving in x gear @ 3k as opposed to y gear @ 1.5-2k. I dont quite understand how that is more effective, unless this fuel cut thing has something to do with it. If your vehicle is running at higher RPMS, therefore working harder. Is that not wasting more energy thus reducing fuel economy. Im just looking at this from a physics stand point. Hey if im way off here please let me know. Im not an Auto expert by any means and if someone can clarify this dilemma please let me know. This could be the cause of our crumby gas milage..improper driving techniques. Suggestions and ideas are strongly encouraged on this one. GAS prices are killing me!

[Madmax]

[/QUOTE]
You will save more gas if you leave it in gear and stay off the throttle as you coast down to 1200 rpm. In this condition, the ECM cuts all fuel, and you are running a dry air charge. If you don't believe me, do some searching on Fuel Cut mode.

[/QUOTE]

Could you give me a good link on where i can find more about this. All i seem to find is boosting fuel cut.

[MountainBiker]

You will save more gas if you leave it in gear and stay off the throttle as you coast down to 1200 rpm. In this condition, the ECM cuts all fuel, and you are running a dry air charge. If you don't believe me, do some searching on Fuel Cut mode.



Could you give me a good link on where i can find more about this. All i seem to find is boosting fuel cut.


Check out Gadget's U-Tune Guide (http://www.gadgetonline.com/U-Tune.pdf).

Then to see it in action, use an OBD-II scan tool, and watch it go into fuel cut mode, however, the scantool lags way behind on reporting this. For faster response, use a wideband O2 to monitor AFR, and you will see it go to ambient air conditions real quick in fuel cut mode. I have noticed that on Freeway runs, it takes longer for fuel cut to happen, especially right after a high load has been placed on the engine.

BTW, Gadget says fuel cut goes down to 1500 rpm, and I've confirmed that on my truck. However, the service manual for my truck says it will go down to 1200 rpm if the brake light is activated, which I've also confirmed.

[Goinginsane]

hmm this started ot as venting to cool the motor and brakes and now it is how can I get better gas mileage.. BTW I drive the piss outta my truck.. I mean seriously I drive it hard and I drive fast. love passing any oppurtunity I get I use 87 octane always have since I bought the truck and I have never gotten worse than 18 mpg I drive an hour one way to work I run around 80 mph almost the whole way some times over 110 and I have not hit any 125 cut off I have tried but I didn't cutoff.. just let off after going over what i thought should be 125.. but really I get 19 mpg and sometimes as low as 18.1 or so .. I GOT BETTER MILEAGE IN MY VETTE lol it would do nearly 30 on the interstate but really only averaged about 18 .

[KAuss]

I drive an hour one way to work I run around 80 mph almost the whole way



Once you run into this thing called traffic you'll understand http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Madmax]

OK, what are your avg shift rpms? Because since i started asking about this im noticing my MPG has improved by changing my driving habits. Im seeing approx 18 mpg now as well.

I still think a cold air kit would dowonders for me here in TX. Also an electric cooling fan to replace the engine driven. Considering my normal commute to and from work is less than 2 miles and the max speed limit is 30 MPH. The engine driven fan im sure is doing more harm than good in regards to fuel economy. I dont deal with stop and go traffic at all so overheating wouldnt be an issue. I may pull the fan out and run without for a while just to see how much more efficient it is. If i like what i see. Ill drop the cash for the electric. Guess ill just have to keep a close eye on the temp gauge. Heck with winter not too far away, could make it through winter and just save up till then.

[KAuss]

All of you guys should take a few drives in San Francisco... Look up the traffic congestion records for each year and we're usually #2 if not #1... #1 being central L.A... (I found out cause someone posted about this before LOL I didn't even know we're that bad)

I drive so slow Civics pass me up... I even let UPS trucks take me sometimes...

I typed out this other thing when forum was bonkers and I just figured out my foot never exceeds the amount of gas it takes to keep 2K... I get to 3K in first gear if the road in front is clear but I'm in traffic 90% of the time now and I shift before I even hit 2K with little effect...

75% of my distance traveled is on a street with matching greens in which I cruise 30 mph without even touching the gas pedal... No brakes, no gas... Hill in the middle of it tho so I have to gas up that part... However there is just no helping it...

Like I said, I got more gas mileage when I was fully loaded during moving day... I moved 4 truck loads of stuff and ended up with 14.9 while I gased the hell out of the truck when I dropped the load off at the new place each time too... I was more aggressive than normal since it was the same weekend as the Sac-town meet!!! I couldn't go cause I had to move... So I had to vent...

Anyways, I got .2 more out of that tank with more than aggressive driving and fully loaded bed with above average passenger weight... (friend was with me)

Then I tried to ease up on my right foot but still get 14.5... Then I tried to rev the hell out of the truck and same thing... 14.3 - 14.7... I also typed this when the forum was bonkers...

When I get a new tank of gas, and drive normally... It usually take 55 miles when the needle starts to drop... Whether it was all local or all freeway... Now this makes no sense to me because I would keep speed on the freeway for 55 miles but it equals to the same as if I stop and go 55 on the streets... http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif

I've stopped caring... Seems even if I'm made of magic best I can get is 16 mpg which is 20 miles / tank... Thats nothing... I rather pass someone up every now and then to make my 25K on the truck seem worth it...

[rednecktaco]

All of you guys should take a few drives in San Francisco... Look up the traffic congestion records for each year and we're usually #2 if not #1... #1 being central L.A... (I found out cause someone posted about this before LOL I didn't even know we're that bad)

I drive so slow Civics pass me up... I even let UPS trucks take me sometimes...

I typed out this other thing when forum was bonkers and I just figured out my foot never exceeds the amount of gas it takes to keep 2K... I get to 3K in first gear if the road in front is clear but I'm in traffic 90% of the time now and I shift before I even hit 2K with little effect...

75% of my distance traveled is on a street with matching greens in which I cruise 30 mph without even touching the gas pedal... No brakes, no gas... Hill in the middle of it tho so I have to gas up that part... However there is just no helping it...

Like I said, I got more gas mileage when I was fully loaded during moving day... I moved 4 truck loads of stuff and ended up with 14.9 while I gased the hell out of the truck when I dropped the load off at the new place each time too... I was more aggressive than normal since it was the same weekend as the Sac-town meet!!! I couldn't go cause I had to move... So I had to vent...

Anyways, I got .2 more out of that tank with more than aggressive driving and fully loaded bed with above average passenger weight... (friend was with me)

Then I tried to ease up on my right foot but still get 14.5... Then I tried to rev the hell out of the truck and same thing... 14.3 - 14.7... I also typed this when the forum was bonkers...

When I get a new tank of gas, and drive normally... It usually take 55 miles when the needle starts to drop... Whether it was all local or all freeway... Now this makes no sense to me because I would keep speed on the freeway for 55 miles but it equals to the same as if I stop and go 55 on the streets... http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif

I've stopped caring... Seems even if I'm made of magic best I can get is 16 mpg which is 20 miles / tank... Thats nothing... I rather pass someone up every now and then to make my 25K on the truck seem worth it...


u know most engine have very little effencity under 1500 rpms. usually u see the best mpg when shifting near 2750-3000 rpm but not at wot, and down shifting at 1500.
i have found driving several cars and trucks that the motor dont lug(which hurts the motor) and high wear items seem to last longer. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[KAuss]

Yeah they mentioned this to me... However it seems you gotta really put your foot down to get the truck to 3K... The truck at 3K has some hellish torque going on and there seriously is no need for that 99.999999% of the time I'm on the road...

When I shift and cruise at 1.5K, I mean I literally cruise with my foot off the gas... Otherwise I'm sitting pretty at around 1.75K or 2K to keep speed... (this is how 6th gear was designed as 65 - 70 is around that range)...

I shift near the manual's recommended shift points but I'm like 5 mph above the recommended speeds on the last 2 gears... So there shouldn't be any problems with my shift points...

Most cars I'd agree you have to take it to 3K, however most of the cars I've owned had no torque and came with turbo lag... Anything under 2K and the thing bogs...

This truck makes easy work of them from the dig for daily driving for sure...

[00yota4x4]

Well for everyone that doesnt believe about the scoop..
I just got caught in a rain storm...and I drove a good bit in it..and when I got back in my garage I popped the hood too look..Yes there was water all splashed into the scoop part on the underpart of the hood where the bracing is and there was some water around under the hood...yes air does flow in there without any problem

[MikeX]

Wait a minute - you had your truck out in the rain?

http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jawdrop.gif

[onestocktaco]

Wait a minute - you had your truck out in the rain?

http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jawdrop.gif



heh, hope for the best mate.

[00yota4x4]

Wait a minute - you had your truck out in the rain?

http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jawdrop.gif


HAHAHAHAHA yea I did...cause my little F-Buddy wanted some
So I will take it getting a little dirty..I will clean it tomorrow

[onestocktaco]

pretty sure he was referring to your open engine compartment with open element intake...

[00yota4x4]

No he knows i NEVER take my truck out in the rain and its clean 24/7 and never gets dirty...He was reffering to me taking the truck out period..nothing about the filter

[Musashi]

Oh My God, he took it out in the rain !!!!

Hey guys, if we want to use the air scoop, what would be a good way to allow the air in and divert any water? How is the 4 Runner designed to do this?

Maybe put in a duct to the rear and divert the air around toward the front so the water would go backward by inertia and the air wrap around to a filter unit?

There's surely enough room on the right side for an air box similar to the K&N FIPK so ducting from the scoop to there should not be too involved.

[00yota4x4]

the 4runner has the intake in stock location...The rain just runs over the intercooler in that turbo one. Doesnt have any chance to go in th motor.

[2JZ X-Runner]

Well for everyone that doesnt believe about the scoop..
I just got caught in a rain storm...and I drove a good bit in it..and when I got back in my garage I popped the hood too look..Yes there was water all splashed into the scoop part on the underpart of the hood where the bracing is and there was some water around under the hood...yes air does flow in there without any problem

Props for going with the homebrew filter. I was wondering about you and the whole rainstorm thing. The amount of water flying at the filter didn't cause any problems? I live in Hawaii and we get rainstorms so randomly it's not even cool. Just don't wanna get stalled when it's poring out.

[Musashi]

Don't think he has a homebrew 2JZ, I think he just opened up the scoop. And you're right about the sudden rain here... that's how I found out that the scoopy does pass air.. Now if I can just make it pass gas as well... muahahaha.... That would be a ricer fart intake for sure....

[Musashi]

Dang, I just noticed 00yota, you take your truck out, get it dirty in the rain and this thread makes five stars. Now that's NEWS... muahahaha...