Drag racing... I mean come on, the regular Taco has the same engine and the same tranny in it... You can get a reg cab V6 and beat a in the straight line...
The XR is remarkable because it has the ability to hug corners... If people don't buy it to run laps I'm going to be very saddened http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I've never been much of a fan of 1/4 miles and never like Nascar... JTGC is always been my fav type of race and I would love to see some folks venture into that with me http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Still, for those that bought the XR for the 1/4... Why?
KAuss
12-08-2004, 04:04 PM
You sure you can get a reg cab with the v6?
Side note, why would you ever buy a PICK UP TRUCK to "hug corners?"
it weighs too much, is body on frame, to high, has a solid rear axle, not to mention the weight and traction issues that you have with pickups, and you want to go run laps with it?
Buy a freaking sports car, dont talk crap about other peoples intentions when yours are just as retarded.
I guess we can all say why we're racing slow ass trucks to begin with http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif My whole point was, why buy the XR which is advertised to have a high lateral grip for straight line racing? Although you can't get a STD cab V6 like most of you pointed out, you can still get the Xtr cab and have the same thing right? Last I checked it was priced ower too...
I also didn't know that my post was so offensive... I must have a way with words...
ochizon
12-09-2004, 07:40 AM
I guess we can all say why we're racing slow ass trucks to begin with http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif My whole point was, why buy the XR which is advertised to have a high lateral grip for straight line racing? Although you can't get a STD cab V6 like most of you pointed out, you can still get the Xtr cab and have the same thing right? Last I checked it was priced ower too...
I also didn't know that my post was so offensive... I must have a way with words...
Its all good, I forgot that you have the truck on order, and have not yet received it, and are therefore excited as hell, and just want to talk about it as much as possible with sympathetic ears since you cant drive it yet. Hence the topic http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
My point is only that no, its not the fastest thing out there, nor is it the best handling thing out there, and there are those that will knock you for thinking it is so great handling as much as some might think we are silly for thinking it is fast. But whether hauling ass off the line, or pushing hard around corners, im sure its probably about as much fun as you can get from a truck.
Also, even if there are other tacos that are just as fast... would you want a less than complete package from a sport truck?
KAuss
12-09-2004, 01:40 PM
Well as far as my $$ goes, the Taco is about as good of a sports package as I can afford http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif So in my sense, if I was to run 1/4s, I would probably save that few K and just get the same egnine in a truck that cost less... Rim / tire might be better on the XR, but with the money saved, I'm sure I can get better heheh...
Still, there is the exclusive factor (seeing the way how long someone has to wait to even get one of these things, might be a year or two before this wears out) of owning a XR... Just because I'm not into 1/4s and top speed runs don't mean I don't love it when someone post outrageous numbers and videos http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
But yeah, I'm just dying to give my truck a spin even tho it's in limbo right now... Can't do much but talk about it hehe... Are you sure your other job isn't working with Ms. Cleo ochizon? Cause you hit the nail on the head of the reason why this post was made http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
KAuss
12-09-2004, 04:27 PM
I guess Toyota made damn sure not to have XRs sitting on the lot then... That is a really good job at their own marketing departmen to pull this off...
edit: Well actually now I'm confused... The pre is listed as a 2dr Access cab V6 same as the XR less the drop and suspensions... So what other difference is there besides that?
The price of the Pre 2wd V6 is a LOT lower than the XR... I'm sure you can sport a suspension package and maybe some wheels with the savings but wheels might be all one needs to put a 245 hp truck on the drag strip...
Either or, I'm owned cause I have no idea what the other models offer hahahah...
cam2Xrunner
12-09-2004, 05:15 PM
A prerunner/4x4 has 6 lug hubs and much larger 4piston brakes with 11-12" rotors compared to the reg tacoma/X-Runner 5lug hubs and 10" rotors. Im sure there are other suspension/drivetrain differences.
98madman
12-09-2004, 05:27 PM
edit: Well actually now I'm confused... The pre is listed as a 2dr Access cab V6 same as the XR less the drop and suspensions... So what other difference is there besides that?
First off weight will make a difference, a prerunner probably weighs more than an X and a 4x4 definitely weighs more than an X
Secondly did you ever think that the X's gearing might be different from a prerunner/4x4
KAuss
12-10-2004, 01:29 AM
edit: Well actually now I'm confused... The pre is listed as a 2dr Access cab V6 same as the XR less the drop and suspensions... So what other difference is there besides that?
First off weight will make a difference, a prerunner probably weighs more than an X and a 4x4 definitely weighs more than an X
Secondly did you ever think that the X's gearing might be different from a prerunner/4x4
I wish it was, but the only place I would see different gearing might be the rear final gear...
They stated every truck uses the same 6 speed somewhere but I forgot where I read it... The drivetrain 2wd style should be the same cept the rear end...
Weight is:
3715 lbs Prerunner
3690 lbs X-Runner
I'm almost certian the extra weight can be cut by putting on some regular low profile tires and maybe the X-Runner rims...
Price however is 4K difference... Seeing as how you get bigger brakes in the Pre's you might actually gain a bit of straight line performance because you can stop faster... Although the stopping part won't help your time, but it sure will make you feel safer http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Either or, for those that got the XR for straight line performance... It's not wasted money... It more than justifies buying one because you can't get a regular height Taco with V6 in it...
However, if we wanna talk modding a Taco for straigt line... I'd say the 13K STD cab 4 banger is the way to go... Leaves you with about 10K to engine swap and do whatever to the truck compared to the XR... YUM!!!
EL PAALO
12-12-2004, 02:25 AM
Side note, why would you ever buy a PICK UP TRUCK to "hug corners?"
it weighs too much, is body on frame, to high, has a solid rear axle, not to mention the weight and traction issues that you have with pickups, and you want to go run laps with it?
Buy a freaking sports car, dont talk crap about other peoples intentions when yours are just as retarded.
I need a bed for hauling junk all the time and don't have the space for an extra vehicle right now. Sport truck fit the bill perfectly for me. That okay with you? http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Lots of ways to go fast in a straight line ....... XRunner isn't the cheapest taco way to do it especially with the 3:10 gearing, iirc.
I bought mine for handling just to screw with my MR2 and 350Z buds. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
N2AUTOX
04-24-2005, 09:31 AM
I am with EL PAALO. Classed well in HS autox and is already competative box stock. Wait till it is prepped. Minis will still be tough on the tight courses.
Steve
OXI
04-24-2005, 10:06 AM
I agree with the previous post, I still have junk to haul and a use for a truck and yes, I like the body on box frame for strength and the ability to hit curbs and not have to worry about breaking the front or rear suspension!
Trucks are stronger than wimpy sports cars period! A sporty truck is much stronger and has many uses including pulling a trailer.
The SCCA guys are already loving it because it has the ability to pull small sports cars home after they break and get beat!
The XR caught my attention because it can handle and take corners better than most vehicles on the road let alone any truck. It caught my attention because I have no use for a sports car here in Wisconsin let alone limited hauling capabilities of a small sports car!
I am an off-roader and very skilled in loose pavement and I can make the XR work well in winter driving no problem. A sports car, no way unless it is a Celica all-trac or something but a RWD sports car, no way!
The XR compliments my soon to be class 7 Toyota truck that I am building, I now have the opportunity to compete with SCCA and have fun!
I love trucks and would never buy a car, NEVER AGAIN so this truck is the best all around performer to come from a factory PERIOD!
2005 sport truck of the year!
The XR will open a new class of racing with SCCA solo, a truck class, wait and see! the cyclone and lightning are just fast trucks in straight lines so is the new v-10 ram sport truck, they suck in cornering, the XR can whip their tails. That is why the XR was names sport truck of the year, not no v-10 ram, etc...
watch dust to glory...
OXI
04-24-2005, 10:34 AM
Where are you racing out of, what SCCA region?
I am with the Milwaukee region and our first race is May 15th.
What tire pressures are you using front and rear?
KAuss
04-24-2005, 07:09 PM
Thanks from bring up a post thats like a billion years old guys http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
EL PAALO
04-25-2005, 03:59 PM
Where are you racing out of, what SCCA region?
I am with the Milwaukee region and our first race is May 15th.
What tire pressures are you using front and rear?
Texas
first race in may? ouch. we start in January. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
stock tires heated up quite a bit for me, so I was running a couple lbs under by the last weekend I ran, iirc. haven't paid enough attention, but have played with the pressures ....... too many temp changes. factory pressure for the new bfg's worked great, but they don't heat up like the factory tires.
OXI
04-25-2005, 06:31 PM
Are you running BFG g-force t/a tires on your XR?
Are the factory Potenza's overheating during competition?
EL PAALO
04-25-2005, 10:36 PM
yes, the kdw2.
wouldn't say overheating, just getting much hotter than the new tires and certainly not as sticky. from stock pressures, they were raising to 40 psi or so while the kdw2's only raise about a pound up front and zero in back. abused the kdw2's much more too as far as back to back runs and such.
OXI
04-26-2005, 03:48 AM
So the Potenza's did not fit the bill and the BFG's are a better fit for the XR?
How are the BFG's on the street for wear over miles?
I am considering the BFG's after I melt the Potenza's this summer, is that the best bet as I start to compete?
OXI
04-26-2005, 02:36 PM
Hey, what are your plans for winter? What wheels and tires you planning to run?
daveds50
04-26-2005, 02:41 PM
my guess, since he lives in Texas, would be the exact same winter tires as i use in Las Vegas, NV. the same ones that are on the truck in the summer. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
dave ( < the auto-x off season kills me here... it's the most brutal 3 weeks in December that i've experienced... http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )
ooops... just realized you were not replying to el paalo... my bad...
EL PAALO
04-28-2005, 08:12 AM
^ pretty much, lol. what the hell are winter tires?
the bfg's are supposed to wear great as far as milage. from the limited but abusive 1500 or so miles I have on them I believe it. don't bother comparing the treadwear ratings between the stockers and the bfg's since that rating is done by manufacturers and there's no real standard ... just a ballpark figure at best. the bfg's are broken in now and are even stickier, btw. much, much, much better than stock.
edit:
can't remember if I mentioned that the kdw2 is noisier than stock. they are, so if that's something that bothers you, don't get them.
OXI
04-28-2005, 06:59 PM
Winter tires? You need to come to Wisconsin...
I may be one of the few XR driving this far north...I have to prepare for winter driving, I am planning 15x8 rims with BFG all terrains or something and maybe only 3 sand bags in the far rear...
Drifting in the snow and ice is awesome!!!
I have always driven with 2WD's in Wisconsin winters, it teaches you car control in wicked conditions which helped me in baja...
The XR is low to the ground, heavy and has a decent wheelbase, all the right conditions for good winter driving, I just need the tires...my best ever winter truck was my old '86 standard cab, long-box 2WD Toyota, that thing was a low-rider stock, put 2 sandbags in the far rear and let her rip through the snow and it handled better than most vehicles on the road...
Winter driving here in Wisconsin should be a blast with the XR!
N2AUTOX
05-01-2005, 05:49 PM
I had just bought the X three days ago and ran at the local autocross box stock. I have about 5 years under my belt autoxing. Stock everything including tires and rims
(38PSI Front and 36PSI Back).
The X turned in great, but the back was loose. The truck got a lot of looks, that is for certain.
One of the gentleman that I ran against in HS has a fully prepped Focus with Kuhmo V710s. I will link the results. The truck can compete regionally.
The reason I purchased the truck was
1. Wife loves trucks..
2. I like to be different.
3. Performance for dollar.
4. Many people believe it can not hang in HS. ( I disagree. If car wins I am in a truck, if the truck wins then what? I would bet letters to be reclassed, but we are a long way from that.)
That all being said, if we could all share as much information as quickly as possible, it will help us all in the set up / cost section.
I will be trying lightweight rims and 04 Hoosiers(275 35 18) and alignment for now. I am hoping the autoxtires will help with rear grip in tight turns which is the trucks major weakness right now.
Any suggestions on front sway bar sizes that my help the rear grip, or should I just what for the sticker tires and go from there?
There is not many of us with Xs going for HS, but I have a little bit of a budget and am will to give it a shot. But I could use any info you can provide on your own test and tune and results. BTW EL PAALO, I am MR2 KIX on the mr2oc site, so you will see me there as well. Results from box stock three day old X below.
I will be trying lightweight rims and 04 Hoosiers(275 35 18) and alignment for now. I am hoping the autoxtires will help with rear grip in tight turns which is the trucks major weakness right now.
Not to discourage you or nothing, but Best Motoring did a test on a Evo MR with light weight rims... They ran the autox with the same car and they found that light weight rims are a myth... There isn't any time that'll shave off from having a set...
Theoreticaly you save rotational weight... However I guess when you put the rubber to the pavement it don't mean much...
They tested the difference of the aluminum roof vs GSR roof and the roof was weighted down with a sticky mat that brings it close to the GSR weight...
The times were still close however the control and feedback was a lot sharper with the lightened roof... With the light weight roof obviously faster...
Well, thats just my 2/100....
daveds50
05-02-2005, 02:15 AM
quote]
Not to discourage you or nothing, but Best Motoring did a test on a Evo MR with light weight rims... They ran the autox with the same car and they found that light weight rims are a myth... There isn't any time that'll shave off from having a set...
[/QUOTE]
the EVO MR comes with fairly light wheels. unless you go to a Keizer racing wheel, there wont be a whole lot of difference.
on my car however, i went from 16 lb wheels, to 10 lb wheels... it made a huge difference in acceleration, braking, and a very noticeable driving feel. plus, when at national level, where wins are determined by 1/1000s of a second, you can bet that everything makes a difference.
i would think that with XR wheels, that weigh a ton, would benefit even more with a 15-17 lb wheel.
dont forget, you wont just be loosing rotational inerita, but also unsprung weight.
exactly who was the driver for Best Motoring ? anyone good ?
dave
daveds50
05-02-2005, 02:59 AM
The reason I purchased the truck was
1. Wife loves trucks..
2. I like to be different.
3. Performance for dollar.
4. Many people believe it can not hang in HS. ( I disagree. If car wins I am in a truck, if the truck wins then what? I would bet letters to be reclassed, but we are a long way from that.)
1. i guess thats important... but my wife likes any vehicle i own. the faster, the better. she does quite well in the shifter karts.
2. ok... thats exactly what the guy that runs the FSP Yugo at nationals said...
3. Mazdaspeed Miata. i drove one on the street, and i'd say thats the best bang for the buck. not the fastest in a straght line, but one of the most nimble stock cars i've driven... and thats saying a lot. ( i've probably autocrossed, road raced, and rallied 300-400 different cars )
4. only at local events... yes, i've autocrossed a national level Mini. no, your XR on Hoosiers/Kuhmos will be hard pressed to beat one. a Focus is nowhere near a top level Mini, or even a top level 89 Civic Si. wheelbase is our downfall... you, like i in my SR, know how painful slaloms can be. transient response is what the weight of our trucks hurts us in. in the Mini, on the same slalom, just keep it planted, and turn the wheel. zip, zip, zip.
but at local events, depending on your region, the XR/SR can dominate. it would be easy here in Las Vegas... we have a real weak HS here.
from what i found with the XR, and my SR, is you _have_ to roll onto the throttle ( you should be in any vehicle anyway on corner exit ) both tend to kick the rear end out when stomping the throttle. you may want to get a custom made larger front anti roll bar for it, but you are masking something that can be cured by being a lot more smooth. for example, just about everyone not smooth who drives my STS civic, spins it out. however, Ken Motonishi ( STS nat champ ) drove it, and said the setup is awesome... i like it too.
however, before you do any tuning, get the wheels and tires first. i've been running R Compounds on various cars for about 13 years, ever since the Yokohama 001's came out. all vehicles change with R compounds. also, it seems the Kuhmo V710's hold up on a heavy vehicle better than the Hoosier A3S04/A3S05. you may want to think about that.
you can read more of my thoughts on this subject here. (http://www.customtacos.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=499443&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&fpart=6&vc=1)
dave
N2AUTOX
05-02-2005, 01:56 PM
Thanks for the input. Mazdaspeed Miata I can not fit in, nor carry my 4 year old in the back when not in autox mode. It doesn't seem to be doing to well in its stock SOLO II Class as well, at least here on the east coast. So no go at all on that one.
I have the 710s and Hoosiers for my "real" autocross car which is a 2nd gen MR2, So I am not new to the tire situation nor autoxing. I got the Hoosiers because they are last years, half price and the 710s are not available in the size I need yet. I am just testing and tuning this year for kicks on the X. If it does better than I expect, I will continue development.
Thanks for tip on the sway bar, it was next on the list, only if the stocker is not adequate. I had the same thoughts on rolling on the throttle to get out of the corners better, lots of tire spin from overdriving at this point because of lack of being familer with the X (I only had it for three days), it was not my ability to be smooth.
As for the lightweight rims and Hoosiers, Dave pretty much covered it with his response on unsprung weight and such, also less total weight is better and all of this has been proven the autox arena, so I am confident it will help, just how much is the question.
Two more questions I have is, since the truck is so light in the should I run with the spare and full tank of gas? I have mixed feelings on total weight loss and a light rear pickup truck. My intial thoughts say leave the spare and experiment with the fuel.
I am not expecting to "beat" a national level Mini, but that being said, a lot of people at the local autox where amused that brought out a truck but were not so amused I ran faster times in a bone stock X against some prepped cars with decent drivers.
And no offense Dave, I only gave some of reasons I bought the truck, not all the reasons. Nor did not ask for your approval of my decision but I thank you for your suggestions.
Steve
daveds50
05-02-2005, 03:03 PM
no offense taken. i actually forgot to put a smiley after the Yugo comment... By the way, that was definatly the fastest by far Yugo i have ever seen. diddnt win, but was not a slouch like you would think it would be.
the Mazdaspeed is just a real fun car for cheap. we have a bunch running here, but none with real good drivers. having owned Miatas before, i dont think i'd buy one... but i have to admit, it was the most fun car for the money that i have driven in a really long time.
Hoosier A3S04's... dont abuse them... no excessive sliding around. people have corded the outside edges on them in 2-3 events here. but then, they are very abusive drivers ( and not that fast )
take the spare out. it's always better to weigh less, and tune the vehicle to the less weight. i've been known to drive vehicles that would fly like a Lawn Dart if you could throw them... ( CSP CRX's ) however, with the right suspension tuning, balanced handling as good as any other car. a truck would be no different.
yeah. thats one thing you cant take away from auto-xing a XR/SR... nobody can believe the times you are pulling on a good run. as you know, driver can make more of a difference than the vehicle at the local level. crowd reaction is amusing when you "race the truck" http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
maybe someday i'll see you in Topeka.
dave ( who is sick of watching Mini's in HS at national events )
KAuss
05-03-2005, 02:43 AM
All of the best motoring drivers are all national competitors...
They're all JGTC drivers, Rally, some are D1 drifters...
Those guys aren't good, they're pro with a resume...
EVERYTHING makes a difference, however from their conclusion, (I think they saved like 1.25 kg / wheel)
That comes out to 2.8 lbs each...
The difference in lap times was .29 seconds ran at Tsukuba... 1:04:70 with the lighter BBS optoinal wheels Vs the Enkei stockers 1:04:99...
Also for correction, the MR actually did better with 4 kg added to the roof vs the MR in stock form... It bested the lighter car by 50:271 vs 50:322 on an autox track... The test shown the stock MR to have a slight understeer and having the 4kg on top actually lifted the car and probably helped to recude the understeer effect yielding it a better time... However stability was superior with less weight...
So as you can see, if you are going to spend damn near 5K for a set of rims to save a few tenths or hundreds of a second, I think there are plenty of other go fast parts you can buy with that $ to save you more time...
BTW, Dave, you should go online and see if you can find a few Best Motoring videos... They're worth the watch for anyone who's devoted in racing... These videos are where I learn all of my road course techniques... That and plenty of reading about it also... Now I just need practice!!!
Edit: What is the wieght difference of the said wheels vs the stock XR wheels?
I'm always a fan of saving weight... I wish I can afford light weight rims... However thats out of my budget...
I'm so hardcore I giggle inside whenever I hear of people who own ITRs and shave the screws and stuff just to shave a few lbs...
Also, let your driving tell you whether you need the weight in the back or not... Adding weight is meant to keep you more stable and controled... However if you are consistent enough without the need to add ballast, then run without it because you'll always run faster lighter... Once again, ONLY if you're under control 100% of the time...
N2AUTOX
05-03-2005, 06:34 PM
Did it ever cross your mind that I need an extra set of wheels for my autox tires anyway? So they might as well be as light as I can afford. How much do they weigh? I do not know for sure. Go weigh your stockers, and let me know what they are. When the ones I ordered come in I will check them. Advertised weight is 22lbs each. Going with wider tires and I will check the total difference as well to the stockers.
As far as time goes on track or autox, as long as it is close I will have to say every driver has some degree of error that needs to be factored in. Work those autox numbers you gave back to percentile 99.898% and that will tell you if it is accurate or not. I would bet that could be driver error. I have never seen anyone run back to back identical track or autox times in the same car. (Do not confuse this with it has never been done)
I will stick with history and physics on my decisions to reduce weight at the wheels.
I have another couple of questions. How much camber can I get out of the front, can I use crash bolts on the X in stock class and are they in the shop manual? I admit, I have not looked at the front for an autox alignment yet?
Steve
KAuss
05-04-2005, 01:24 AM
The wheel test was ran at Tsukuba, thats a road course track...
I have seen people run within tenths of seconds within each lap so it isn't that far off... Especially those Best Motoring guys, they run within a tenth constantly on hot laps...
Also, given they tested both in the same situation and the same conditions, the other variables wouldn't matter because lets say you put in 3K turbo kit... You will see time differences regardless of the driver error on average...
If you can afford the rims, then there obviously isn't a disadvantage to having lighter ones... However, at the price of say 3K vs 5K, the extra 2K saved from getting say 25 lbs rims can go into suspensions and whatnot...
Still, one of these days I'll have a set of rims, hopefully it'll cost 5K http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I can probably put the spare on a scale, but I don't know what I'm going to do about taking the tire off the wheel and putting it back on... http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif
daveds50
05-04-2005, 03:23 AM
The wheel test was ran at Tsukuba, thats a road course track...
yeah, that makes more sense. when you are accelerating from a very low speed, to a moderate speed, as in auto-x ( say 10 to 70 mph ) rotational inertia does play a large part.
on all the road courses that i've been on, i dont recall a lot of corners that were under 40 mph. the rotational inertia is still there, but not as noticable by the driver.
yeah, physics works.
besides, if you buy a $5K set of wheels, you are buying the wrong wheels anyway. real racing wheels can be bought for around $200, or custom made for around $400 each, from companies like Keizer, Duralite, Compomotive, etc. my set of 13 x 9's were 7.7 lbs each, my 16 x 11's were 12.6 lbs each.
i'll take a wild guess and say that stock XR wheels are 30+ lbs each. when you go to even a heavy racing wheel, like a 17 lb wheel, you _will_ tell the difference. like i mentioned before, the EVO MR comes with light wheels in the first place.
anyway, here is a very hard to see pic of my old car with the 13 x 9 Keizers:
http://members.cox.net/daveds50/car/CSP-CRX.jpg
one key note about wheels. you can have a 10 lb wheel, that has more rotational inertia than say... a 12 lb wheel. if the 10 lb wheel has most of the mass on the outside of the wheel, and the 12 lb wheel has very little mass on the outside, but has most of it's mass on the hub, you can bet that the 12 lb wheel will be faster. the key to the real racing wheels, is very little mass on the outside. my 13 x 9 rim halfs weighed slightly more than one lb each. most of the mass of the wheel, was the center section.
dave
daveds50
05-04-2005, 03:32 AM
I have another couple of questions. How much camber can I get out of the front, can I use crash bolts on the X in stock class and are they in the shop manual? I admit, I have not looked at the front for an autox alignment yet?
Steve
well, cant help you much on the specifics of the XR, but a lot of the Toyota vehicles do not authorize the use of crash bolts in the factory manuals. they seem real inconsistant though, so you never know. legal in stock as long as they are authorized.
on that note, it appears than on my SR, i can get a lot of neg camber without crash bolts.
dave
KAuss
05-04-2005, 03:38 AM
The wheel test was ran at Tsukuba, thats a road course track...
yeah, that makes more sense. when you are accelerating from a very low speed, to a moderate speed, as in auto-x ( say 10 to 70 mph ) rotational inertia does play a large part.
on all the road courses that i've been on, i dont recall a lot of corners that were under 40 mph. the rotational inertia is still there, but not as noticable by the driver.
yeah, physics works.
besides, if you buy a $5K set of wheels, you are buying the wrong wheels anyway. real racing wheels can be bought for around $200, or custom made for around $400 each, from companies like Keizer, Duralite, Compomotive, etc. my set of 13 x 9's were 7.7 lbs each, my 16 x 11's were 12.6 lbs each.
i'll take a wild guess and say that stock XR wheels are 30+ lbs each. when you go to even a heavy racing wheel, like a 17 lb wheel, you _will_ tell the difference. like i mentioned before, the EVO MR comes with light wheels in the first place.
anyway, here is a very hard to see pic of my old car with the 13 x 9 Keizers:
http://members.cox.net/daveds50/car/CSP-CRX.jpg
one key note about wheels. you can have a 10 lb wheel, that has more rotational inertia than say... a 12 lb wheel. if the 10 lb wheel has most of the mass on the outside of the wheel, and the 12 lb wheel has very little mass on the outside, but has most of it's mass on the hub, you can bet that the 12 lb wheel will be faster. the key to the real racing wheels, is very little mass on the outside. my 13 x 9 rim halfs weighed slightly more than one lb each. most of the mass of the wheel, was the center section.
dave
http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif some things I didn't know there...
EL PAALO
05-04-2005, 06:10 PM
what size tires did you get n2?
I'll take lighter wheels just for feel alone.
stock combo is 57.5 lbs iirc.
thought the spare had to stay in place for stock classes? I've tried almost empty and almost full tanks and preferred the feel with the full tank more although with more careful throttle use near empty should certainly be faster.
N2AUTOX
05-04-2005, 07:25 PM
Got the wheels and tires 18x8 BBS styled wheels, came in at 22.5 lbs. Got the 04 Hoosiers in 285 35 18 and they came in at 25 lbs. Total weight is 47.5 lbs. Thanks for the info EL so it looks 10 lbs at each corner for a total of 40 lbs total. Not to bad and I am sure you could go less with custom racing rims.
Spares can come out in stock. And if the tailgate detaches with out tools, (ie hand removed) I think it can go to, much like a manual sunroof equipped car.
So have you tried it without the spare yet? Looking for total weight to weight bias situation, and would the extra weight in rear actually help traction? Is there such a thing in a X as being too light in the rear? Or does to total weight loss outway any traction issues?
Anyone have a guess a what size front bar to go with yet?
I hope to test fit the wheels and tires this weekend and work with the alignment. Is -2.5 camber possible with the stock setup?
EL how serious are you on setting yours up for autox, and how well is working out now?
Thanks for any help everyone.
Steve
EL PAALO
05-04-2005, 08:45 PM
not serious enough to jack tire wear for the street at this point. I probably do 20k miles a year and this is my daily.
considering selling my current wheels to get some stock sized wheels for autox only vs using the stockers for autox and the prodrives as daily.
tell me how the tire size works out. I'm concerned about extra shifts due to the decreased overall diameter. I tend to hit the top of second a couple times on the courses here and didn't buy real track tires specifically because of that concern and the much shorter sizes available. also curious how well they fit the 8" wheel. I know I can drive around the sloppy feel for better times but that doesn't mean I want a sloppy feel. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I am worried about zero weight out back which is why I did the last couple events on full tanks (feels better but that's not necessarily a real indication). our next race here is the 24th or something. I wouldn't be opposed to racing in the morning with an empty tank and no spare and then filling up and putting the spare back in place before the afternoon runs.
the truck works great here, but there isn't much competetion. the only serious guy here in h stock is a protege with kumho race rubber (don't recall if they're victo or ecsta) and the truck is beating him by a little with me driving and by tons with my friend Colin driving.
the only problem is tight boxes ....... obviously too long in the tight stuff.
results are here if you want something to compare to your region:
http://66.140.241.85/forum/portal_articles.asp?catid=14&cattitle=2005
http://www.spokes.org/admin/results/05e1_fin.htm
OXI
05-05-2005, 03:36 AM
So are you running the spare underneath when you compete?
I would prefere an near empty tank because it sits on the drivers side and making right turns is where I am concerned about. I may try empty tank and then full at drivers school coming up next weekend.
daveds50
05-05-2005, 04:14 AM
here is some food for thought...
take a basketball on a rope ( without spare and gas ) and swing it around.
now take a bowling ball ( with spare and gas ) and put it on the rope and swing it around...
the spare tire and gas will increase the static balance of the truck.
however the dynamic balance of the weight will tend to slide the rear around laterally on corners.
sure, with a lighter static weight in the rear, it will be harder to put power to the ground... so roll onto the throttle earlier and gently on corner exit.
regardless of balance, lighter is better. adjust driving accordingly
in kart racing, we put the lead weights on the end we want to slide more.
dave
EL PAALO
05-05-2005, 08:25 AM
good f'in point.
still going to do my experiment, but that makes complete sense. driving better is the tough part. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
N2AUTOX
05-05-2005, 04:31 PM
It looks like the diameter on the tire is going to be 1 inch shorter, so .5 radius. I am curious to as to the shifting into third since I have been a course already that it was an option. Same thing though with the MR2, there were many courses that I have decide if an extra early shift would work out better between second and third.
I am not too sure it would no be to bad, for some reason my truck seems to pull harder in 3rd than in 2nd, but it could be my imagination. Any thoughts on that one?
Dave, good analogy on the spare gas option, I am heavy footed at times and I feel I will so call "get with the X" in time.
I am still looking for front swaybar ideas. What is the stock size? I used Addco on the MR2 and have just thought about giving them a call. Suggestions?
Anyone (Koni) make single adjustables yet?
Thanks for all the insight, I will keep you posted on how things work out.
Steve
daveds50
05-06-2005, 03:01 AM
I am still looking for front swaybar ideas. What is the stock size? I used Addco on the MR2 and have just thought about giving them a call. Suggestions?
Anyone (Koni) make single adjustables yet?
at this point, you are out of luck. no known direct fit anti swaybars yet.
i've talked to Lee Grimes at Koni America about 6 months ago ( who has been setting me up with my custom valved shocks for over 10 years ) about Tacos, and there is no current plans to offer off the shelf SS shocks for any Tacoma. maybe they changed their minds since then ? but i doubt it. not much market in racing Tacomas. yes, i have done the research for my truck for custom made double adjustables, and as soon as i get to that project, i'll spend the ballpark $1500 or so that it's going to cost... for about 1k more, you can call Penske and talk to them about shocks... who knows what i'll do... http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
there just isn't any love for us Taco owners... http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
dave ( < who has received 12 sets of custom valved, shortened body and shaft Koni DA's )
rx-runner
05-06-2005, 04:35 AM
the reason i bought the truck for is that i can talk hella sh** to the guys with the 350zs...and also i know that the X can smoke alot of trucks out there...and that its a Xrunner and that not alot of people have it, i also laugh at the guys with the chevy extremes they think they are sooooo fast and that they can out handle anything on the road
i also laugh at the guys with the chevy extremes they think they are sooooo fast and that they can out handle anything on the road
I think most car owners laugh at any truck owners who think their trucks are fast and can outhandle any car...
KAuss
05-06-2005, 11:28 AM
i also laugh at the guys with the chevy extremes they think they are sooooo fast and that they can out handle anything on the road
I think most car owners laugh at any truck owners who think their trucks are fast and can outhandle any car...
Only haters do that...
I mean if someone started modding up a RV to autox, then I'll probably bust out the laffing stick...
However, I think the sport truck segment has been in and around long enough for people to understand that there is a following to such a genre...
For those that look down upon others for their preferences, thats just pure hating and haters are the only ones that contribute to that...
I get caught up in it at times, but for the most part, I know better...
daveds50
05-06-2005, 02:02 PM
the reason i bought the truck for is that i can talk hella sh** to the guys with the 350zs...
careful there. if both are stock, with the stock tires, you can only skidpad and equal the 350z.
they will still out brake, out turn-in, out exit, and out accelerate you.
the gap only gets worse when they upgrade their tires.
dave ( < who has driven a 350z on a road race track )
daveds50
05-06-2005, 02:06 PM
[/QUOTE]
Only haters do that...
I mean if someone started modding up a RV to autox, then I'll probably bust out the laffing stick...
[/QUOTE]
heh, heh... you would be suprised by some of the vehicles i've seen autocross. not RV's, but vehicles that make you wonder what the owners were drinking when they thought it would make a good autocross vehicle. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
dave
KAuss
05-06-2005, 06:25 PM
Only haters do that...
I mean if someone started modding up a RV to autox, then I'll probably bust out the laffing stick...
[/QUOTE]
heh, heh... you would be suprised by some of the vehicles i've seen autocross. not RV's, but vehicles that make you wonder what the owners were drinking when they thought it would make a good autocross vehicle. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
dave
[/QUOTE]
I'm sure you seen those videos of the drag racing Caravans right? The ones that school Cobras left and right...
I mean they sure don't look like much but if they still put up solid 13s and 14s on the strip, then I give it props...
There is a world record one that ran a 12.92 or something also...
So even if I see an RV autocross, if it can place anything above the last 1/3 of the pack, then I'd give it props also http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Some people like to be different, the shock value alone is a good attention getter... Some like to use decals, some like to use their imagination, then maybe some just wanted a challenge and got sick of driving things that ride on rails http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
BTW, what were some of the weirder autox'ers you seen Dave?
N2AUTOX
05-07-2005, 09:47 PM
Well I got the 275 35 18 Hoosiers on with the lighter rims and it has made a significant difference. Accelerates quicker and that was still toting the old tires and rims in back.
Did not have anyone capable to do the alignment the way I wanted, so it is going the have that done Monday. I wish I knew how much camber I will be able to get.
First test will be next week at the local autocross, unfortunitely it is a rough and bumpy course. I would really like to get it on something smoother, but I really think it will hold its own locally in particular.
BTW One the guys at work with a great since of humor said " You have done something Dale Jarrett couldn't do." I said what was that? He responded "You drove the truck"
http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/funnyup.gif
I worked at UPS and did really get to drive THE TRUCK with the flames and Alcola rims around the lot a few times. They brought it to the Roanoke, VA center when I was there. It was for the Martinsville race when they first signed Dale. I did not get to do the laps at Martinsville however. Now I wish I could of got a few pics back then.
It looks like the X can still do 60 with the 275 35 18 or a little better in 2nd before the rev limiter. So not a huge difference than stock, but it will require you to shift to 3rd sooner.
Wife thinks the autox tires and rims looks funny because it is about an inch in diameter difference, but I think it is gonna stick the track well.