Tire Vendors Refusing to Sell Rims / Tires (Liability)

so I went to tirerack.com this morning and ordered 4 new 225/40/18 kumho ecsta supra 712 tires shipped fedex 2 day air for a total of $432.50... GREAT deal!

so I get a call about 20 minutes after submitting the order from a rep saying that they can't sell me the tires because my truck is too heavy and it's a liability for them. I told him I have those same exact tires on right now and I can't carry any kind of load anyway because the truck is lowered. he still said there's no way I could be sold these tires due to liability issues... lame [censored] if you ask me!
http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif

think I'm just gonna resubmit the order saying that I drive a civic (light weight) and see if that works... heh

-ComaJoe

sucks man but the re-rder idea is good http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

yes a hassle but they are looking out for your best interest I Dunno if this is really someting to be angry about...

r u serious?
thats stupid crazy..
call em back and complain.. just tell them your using the tires for your drag truck....
if i lived closer to them, i would just pick them up for ya..

I dunno... just pisses me off cause wheelmax.com had no problem selling me the same tires when I bought rims from them.... also several people on this board are running these tires, and as far as I know, no one has complained about them.

I don't really think they're looking out for MY best intrest... think they're looking out for theirs...

in any case, I resubmitted the order. I'll see if it went through shortly *crosses fingers*

-ComaJoe

I've had similar issues with ordering tires, wheels, etc.
I'd place my order, then they'd call to confirm because they think I'm some loon ordering something at random. They would warn me of the "liability" issues, as you describe. But they would still let me order them anyway, after they confirm that I know what I'm ordering.

In fact, I got the same call from tirerack.com when I ordered my 33's - they said they won't fit my Tacoma because they're too big. I said "that's what I have on there now" and did some arguing as well. But they gave in and sent them anyway.

I'm sure you could try to re-order them for a Honda or whatever, and hope they don't put 2 and 2 together with the shipping address and all. heheh

Sometimes, we customizers butt heads with the salesmen. I don't know how many times I've argued with a tire/wheel salesman after he insists that "they won't fit" and I usually insist that he's full of [censored]. I remember way back when I first got my 2000 Tacoma and got some wheels that the salesman said would fit...

http://www.customtacos.com/ubbthreads/files/265013-041600a17.JPG

You can't tell me that doesn't look like ass. "You can only put rear-wheel-drive wheels on your rear-wheel-drive Tacoma" . What a dumb [censored] salesman. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif The thing is.. they're ALL like that. They only know what their computer screen tells them.

same guy just called back said it still wasn't possible. I told him that's bs and I'm posting the results of the incident on a large message board for all to see. he said there's still nothing he can do.

so that's the end of tirerack.com for me... *******s... http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif

-ComaJoe

same guy just called back said it still wasn't possible.
-ComaJoe


If there's so much liability for them to sell you the tires, then why the hell do they even sell them?

There's a guy on Ebay that lives here in Sarasota that sells Nankang tires extremelly cheap. I think you can get a set of 4 x 18" 225 40 for like $315 + tax.

i had the same thing from them when i ordered my 305/50R15's for my rear a few years ago..
they just look at a computer and the computer tells them what will, and will not fit a stock vehicle....
well.. like i said.. last time, i just picked them up myself.....
well, just reorder,and hope u dont get an other dork

Have his name? Punk him and talk to his manager that he wont sell you product.

Dude,Give Daryll a call at AxisHP (www.axishp.com) and tell him what you need.He very cool and has the best prices on wheels and tires.And yes he customizes his rides so he will not give you lip.When everyone said that I couldn't get the Boyds the way I wanted he said no problem,they just have to be custom made and the deal was done.Tell him Casey sent you there.

AxisHP (www.axishp.com) at 480-444-2558

just have a friend place the order for a "civic" then you can put em on your toy. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

i had the same problem so what i did i printed out the pages with the price and shipping info. then i went to the local americas tire co. and they matched the price. i think all americas tire co. can match the prices look into that thats were i go the same tires as you
225/40/18 kumho ecsta supra 712 tires for my truck.

the funny thing is that those tires are rated at 1235lbs. max load each and that is from Tire Racks site. You should bitch at them some more and tell them your truck is just over 3000 lbs. and no where near the 4900lbs the tires are rated at.
712 specs (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Kumho&model=ECSTA+Supra+712)

even though they won't sell me the tires, my account was still charged twice according to my online banking page!!! I have no doubt that they'll completely reimburse my account within a day or two but that is complete BS!!! I should not have been charged if they aren't going to send the product.

I'm at work right now but as soon as I get off I'll be calling to give them a piece of my mind!

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-ComaJoe

since they charged you they have to send them, talk to their suppervisor and tell him off

the funny thing is that those tires are rated at 1235lbs. max load each and that is from Tire Racks site. You should bitch at them some more and tell them your truck is just over 3000 lbs. and no where near the 4900lbs the tires are rated at.
712 specs (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Kumho&model=ECSTA+Supra+712)

That's exactly what I did when I was trying to order some SSR Competition wheels. They claimed the truck weighed too much for them so I sent them to the SpeedStar Racing site, eventhough it's in Japanese, to show them the load capacity of the wheel. I ended up choosing a different wheel, didn't like the $360 per wheel price, but you still have to show them that their wheel/tire database is not exactly complete/accurate.

they arn't allowed to charge your card untill they are ready to ship. Complain to your bank and explain how they charged you, then refused to ship.

Get their CC processor to [censored]-can em http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

Re-order them and tell them its for a Honda CRX. That will get your tires no prob.

F them! I'll give my money to a more deserving company! TIRERACK.COM SUCKS!!!

http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif

-ComaJoe

ya, fk those rat bastard sons of bitches... but they have my potenzas for $104 http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif

I haven't had any problems buying tires from Tirerack.com..I got the BFG KDW's from there for $100 less than I could have gotten them at Discount Tire... I can't understand them not giving you tires because they are going to be put on a Tacoma. Ask them if they sell those size tires Corvette, Mustang, or Camaro guys...all of which weigh several hundred pounds heavier. I like Tirerack.com, but if they are giving you flack and wont sell because you are putting them on a Tacoma, then I'll be writing them a complaint e-mail on your behalf.

I've had similar issues with ordering tires, wheels, etc.
I'd place my order, then they'd call to confirm because they think I'm some loon ordering something at random. They would warn me of the "liability" issues, as you describe. But they would still let me order them anyway, after they confirm that I know what I'm ordering.

In fact, I got the same call from tirerack.com when I ordered my 33's - they said they won't fit my Tacoma because they're too big. I said "that's what I have on there now" and did some arguing as well. But they gave in and sent them anyway.

I'm sure you could try to re-order them for a Honda or whatever, and hope they don't put 2 and 2 together with the shipping address and all. heheh

Sometimes, we customizers butt heads with the salesmen. I don't know how many times I've argued with a tire/wheel salesman after he insists that "they won't fit" and I usually insist that he's full of [censored]. I remember way back when I first got my 2000 Tacoma and got some wheels that the salesman said would fit...

http://www.customtacos.com/ubbthreads/files/265013-041600a17.JPG

You can't tell me that doesn't look like ass. "You can only put rear-wheel-drive wheels on your rear-wheel-drive Tacoma" . What a dumb [censored] salesman. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif The thing is.. they're ALL like that. They only know what their computer screen tells them.



Hey, did you rub when turning like I did? LOL, that looks like my first set of wheels I got for the truck based on Discount Tire salesmans advice...boy is -27mm offset so wrong on a Tacoma!

Hey, did you rub when turning like I did? LOL, that looks like my first set of wheels I got for the truck based on Discount Tire salesmans advice...boy is -27mm offset so wrong on a Tacoma!


No doubt, and those are zero offset, so your -1" would be wicked bad LOL... yeah those things rubbed the top of my fender. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif It truly is a chore to convince a tire/wheel salesman what you REALLY need....
http://www.customtacos.com/gallery2/data/507/5miniac1.jpg

I wanted to take an opportunity to explain our reasoning on our decision not to sell under loaded tires.

There are a couple of considerations.
One is safety. The tire you selected simply will not support the Gross Axle Weight Rating for the rear of the S Runner. This is listed on the Vin placard as (GAWR RR) as 2500lb on the rear. The tires will only carry 1123 lbs when used on a light truck. The industry standard is that a passenger tire is only rated to carry 91% of the listed load when it is used on a light truck. Our sales representative should have explained this, I apologize for his error. This leaves the tires 254lbs short on load for the rear, even if the load on the tire was applicable the tires would be 30 lbs short.

If the truck is loaded to its capability the tires will be overloaded. This will cause an excess build up of heat due to the extra weight and excessive sidewall flexing (this tire rotates 824 times per mile- at 60 mph that is 14 times per second.) The heat causes the tire to fail internally. The belts begin to separate from the tread and the sidewall structure will disintegrate. This can lead to a catastrophic failure and loss of control of the vehicle. This will not happen every time the tire is overloaded, but it is a foreseeable outcome.

Not to sound too melodramatic but, we don’t feel we should be selling products that could fail and could cause injury or death to the person we sold them to. There is also the possibility that people in other vehicles could be involved. We understand some people will not understand this. I wish we could explain this well enough so that we did not loose customers over it. We are willing to lose a sale and even a customer to avoid selling potentially dangerous applications.

There is also a liability issue. If someone was injured in an accident caused by a tire failure we could possibly be sued if it was determined we knew the product could fail under normal use. We feel it would be difficult to justify such a sale to a Jury. There have been jury awards in the millions of dollars over similar issues regarding overloaded tires and the resulting accidents. We also could not make a credible claim we think 225/40-18 tires are going on a Civic. Even if we by accepting the liability for using an incorrect tire the purchaser can not sue us, there is no way for us to be released by others on the road. The Ford Explorer issue is a prime example.

We also did not charge the credit card. When an order is placed our computer system checks with the credit card clearing service to see if the account has adequate funds. If it does the system puts a hold on the amount. The bank does not count it as a charge until we send them a shipment notice. The bank system does immediately allocate and charge the amounts when we notify them of our request. When we cancel an order our system sends an immediate request to release the allocation of the funds on the credit card account. The banks do not immediately release the funds. Most banks do so in 24 hours. The reason there are two charges is do to your choice to replace the order after we had express out concern. The bank never released any funds to us.

There is no short term gain for us to take an order, pay a representative to call and discuss the application, and then cancel the order. We do feel that it is the only decision we can make for our long term viability. I have been with the company for 16 years. We are committed to helping customers select the best products to meet their needs. We are not willing to simply sell anything to make a short term gain.

I apologize for the length of my post. Thank you for your time.

Tim, I appreciate your reply and your concern for your customers, however my truck does NOT weight 2,500lbs (in the rear)... it only weights 3,200lbs WITH ME IN IT!

as far as carrying a load...
http://www.customtacos.com/gallery2/data/500/70904-01-04_003.jpg

^^^ as you can see, it's just not possible....

http://www.customtacos.com/gallery2/data/500/70901-06-04_010.jpg
^^^ check out those kumhos! it's kewl though... I'll buy elsewhere. thx for the reply again.

-ComaJoe

nice of you to reply Tim, but not everyone uses a truck to haul stuff. If his truck was loaded to capacity, the tires would be rubbing the fenders and the suspension would be bottomed out anyways. I guess you wouldn't sell a 215/35/18 to us either. Plenty of minitrucks..chevy, toyota, ford, etc.. run 215/35/18s and 225/40/18s. We don't haul crap with them. They are for driving and looks. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

This is straight from Joe "I told him I have those same exact tires on right now and I can't carry any kind of load anyway because the truck is lowered".

The weight I listed is the Gross Axle Weight for the rear of the truck from the VIN placard. 2500lbs is the weight Toyota lists as the maximum for the rear axle when loaded. It should also be listed on your truck. The placard is normally on the door jam.

Your truck looks great! I am sure your intention is not to load up the bed with gravel. Unfortunately for liability issues even if we think the vehicle is not going to be loaded to maximum if there were any tire failures there are plenty of law firms waiting to jump at tire law suits. They may only have to convince a jury that what we sold could have caused the failure.

There would also be concerns if you sold the truck or if someone borrowed the truck.

I appreciate your response.

Well since this is a forum and hopefully companies will accept feedback I'm going to give mine.

I won't buy from a company that babies me and tries to hold my hand on my purchases. When I bag my truck there will be risks. When I flipped the b/js there might have been risks. And when I stick 18" wheels and low profile tires their might be a risk but I'm the one that is deciding to take the risk.

Thanks for the heads up ComaJoe, that's one company I will not do business with nor recommend.

Both parties are right... The company can't sell the tire because of a possible lawsuit, and you guys can still use the tire because you know the limitations of your truck..

What about a solution? Perhaps a signed agreement that he's been warned about the max-load, and agrees not to sue based upon that?

btw : nice of you to come onto the forum and explain your reasoning. It's good to see companies that do that.

Tim, I know yall would sell Falken Azenis if you could, but is there a particular reason why we can't get Falken Azenis Sports from TireRack.com? (Besides the fact I would be sticking them on a Tacoma...j/k http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif ) Azenis are the tires to have in Street Touring, and the Kumho MX's don't quite cut it (225/50-16 MX is inferior to the 205/55-16 Azenis Sports for autocrossing).

P.S. You should think about listing the 16x7.5 Kosei K-1's (5 x 114.mm bolt pattern with a +43mm offset) as an option for the 2WD tacoma...The set I have is a perfect fit on the hub shoulder and perfect width to the fender, no rubbing at all with 225/50-16 Kumho Ecsta MX's while autocrossing. Have you evaluated the Kosei K-1's for use on 2WD Tacomas?

We could possibly develop a signed waiver from the purchaser or driver of the truck. It may even apply to the passengers. Waivers don't often work. The burden of proof in a civil case is much lower than a criminal case.

There is no way for us to get a waiver from liability to third parties. If a tire fails causing the drive to lose control and hit another vehicle the people in the other vehicle could look to hold us responsible. They did not agree to the risk.

This is not just theory. Tire dealers have lost millions in similar cases. Not to the purchaser, but to third parties.

Tim, I know yall would sell Falken Azenis if you could, but is there a particular reason why we can't get Falken Azenis Sports from TireRack.com? (Besides the fact I would be sticking them on a Tacoma...j/k http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif ) Azenis are the tires to have in Street Touring, and the Kumho MX's don't quite cut it (225/50-16 MX is inferior to the 205/55-16 Azenis Sports for autocrossing).

P.S. You should think about listing the 16x7.5 Kosei K-1's (5 x 114.mm bolt pattern with a +43mm offset) as an option for the 2WD tacoma...The set I have is a perfect fit on the hub shoulder and perfect width to the fender, no rubbing at all with 225/50-16 Kumho Ecsta MX's while autocrossing. Have you evaluated the Kosei K-1's for use on 2WD Tacomas?



Falken has had restrictive distribution agreements based on geographic areas. Because of the way our distribution works we can only offer tires where there are no restrictions.

We have heard good things about Falken tires and did offer them for a while a few years ago.

We also have practical limitations in warehousing space and other considerations. We would like to be able to offer all brands to all customers but simply can't.

We do consider changes to our offerings to meet customer needs.

I'll check with our engineer on the K1 application. There are 12 different fitment areas we consider when listing an application.

Tim,

thanks for your willingness to come on CT and explain your stance. It is indeed a sad state our country is in due to so many American's litigious nature. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doah.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif It reflects well on your company that you would care to explain in such detail why you are unable to sell a product. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

Tim,

thanks for your willingness to come on CT and explain your stance. It is indeed a sad state our country is in due to so many American's litigious nature. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doah.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif It reflects well on your company that you would care to explain in such detail why you are unable to sell a product. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif



agreed

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but if you went to any auto accessory shop and just told them you wanted a 225/40 18 tire.. they could care less what car it went on.. they make a sale... good for you to come on and give us this long reason why you wont sell tires... but its still a bunch of BS.. good luck selling tires http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

I agree. why do you (Tire Rack) have to know what car/truck it's going on? Most places do not ask that. If you don't know, can you still get in trouble? I see how it could get you in trouble if you know what it's going on based on numbers like you mentioned.

Thanks to uid_o and others for the understanding. We do not make the decission to turn away sales lightly. We don't stock tires just so we can go out an look at them http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thanks also to the site for the oportunity to respond.

how do the numbers compare for the Suburu WRX? I see they can tow 2000lbs. and you guys reccommend 225/40/18s for them. Just curious. They also weigh 3000-3200lbs, about what our trucks weigh.

I also appreciate you taking your time to come on here. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

The TireRack would've been my 1st choice for wheels and tires on my truck... if they had more than three 18" wheels to choose from http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I've ordered several sets of wheels from them in the past, and they always arrived insanely fast (2 days!) and w/o hassle. I absolutely love the SSR Comps that I got from them for my VW!

I conversed with Eric (TireRack's Volkswagen guy) about the limited selection of Tacoma wheels and he explained the whole liability thing to me too. It's a shame that Victoria Wheel and Tire had to get my money for the 18's I just bought http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

After the whole Bridgestone/SUV tire problems of the past summer, I'd have to think it's in the TireRack's best interest to keep doing what they're doing, even if we don't like it.

maybe you can go 235/40/18...cause with that size its listed for our trucks well for my 00 ext cab it is...you can get better performance from that size and its not really much than the 225/40/18... tirerack (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=ECSTA+Supra+712 &vehicleSearch=true&partnum=34WR8ES712&fromCompare 1=yes)...whats the width of your rims?

how do the numbers compare for the Suburu WRX? I see they can tow 2000lbs. and you guys reccommend 225/40/18s for them. Just curious. They also weigh 3000-3200lbs, about what our trucks weigh.

I also appreciate you taking your time to come on here. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif



Thanks.
I'm referring to Gross Axle Weight Rating, the amount of weight the manufacture says can be supported by an axle. While the WRX can tow 2000 lbs (I have not researched the tow capacity, taking your word for it) the GAWR for the rear is only 1890 lbs. Most vehicles only allow for 500 lbs tongue weight(the amount of weight carried by the tow hitch.). So only 500lbs of the 2000lb tow is being supported by the rear axle. The other 1500 is being supported by the trailer axle.

The 2500 lbs for the S Runner is the total weight that can be carried the rear axle- Vehicle weight plus the weight of the load in the bed, plus the weight carried by the hitch if you are towing.

We have looked at this in detail. We are not new to the tire and wheel business. I have been working in the industry for 16 years, the company has been selling tires for almost 25 years. We look for every opportunity to offer products that will meet the capabilities of the vehicle they are intended to be used on.

Unfortunately trucks are difficult. They are normally lighter than a comparably sized car. Pickups especially have the capacity to carry much more weight than a comparably sized car. It certainly is not everyone's intention to use the truck to haul loads. The liability issue is that it can be used, and with an open bed it is very easy to add the weight. A front end loader can put enough landscaping rock to max out the GAWR in one scoop. Even if a tire failure happened when the truck was completely un loaded we are still at risk as the tire does not meet the design standards se forth by Toyota.

man.. you refused a sale to a customer that was willing to accept the risks.. as you can see he already has the tires.. too bad you just lost a $400 sale... and like others said.. i wont be calling you if i need tires... its great you've been doing this for 16 years... but history hasnt changed much... people still take risks on cars/trucks... i have tires on my truck that come OEM on porche's... hmm dont have any problems with loading here.. well over 3000 miles on them... you need to develop a waiver so you can quit turning away business http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Here's my opinion Tim. In the next four months I am gonna be purchasing a set of rims and tires for my 97 Tacoma AND my 1998 Explorer 4dr. And guess what? I have been looking at Tire Rack for a week now trying to decide on some rims and tires. But if you can't resolve the issue, Tim, I'll take my business elsewhere. No one wants to deal with this type of hassle. It was nice and all for you to come on here and try to save face, but unless the guy gets what he's after, in my eyes you didn't. Sorry, man. But I won't order something only to have someone tell me it either won't fit or they wont sell it to me due to a possible liability and put my funds on hold.

You guys at Tire Rack need to work something out here. Because so far you are losing customers. And have you looked at the number of members here? Not to mention the amount of people on the street each member will probably tell? You're going to lose more than just a few customers. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

And because of this someone was killed?

So, your saying you feel someone's life is worth less than $400.00?

- Sorry more mellow drama but it is reality. That is what a jury would think. It is what Juries have convicted for.

We are not going to risk our business or others lives to sell a set of tires.

I also found this thread- What's the most you've towed with your taco?

http://www.customtacos.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=264379&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=186&fpart=1

"i've had the most about 15 people in my truck, me & 2 girls up front and 5 girls and 7 of my boys in the back during beach week going down the strip. the tires looked like they were gonna pop and the bumper was real close to the ground. "

Truck has 18" wheels. Imagine a tire failure and 12 kids go skidding down the pavement. Do you think their parents are going to go after just the driver or a mid sized corporation who sold him the tires? Do you think their parents or a jury would care that he signed a waiver?

I know not everyone is that irresponsible. We don't know who is and who is not.

There is no short term gain from us turning away $400.00. Our business is not built on making quick sales of whatever we can pass off. We try to do what is right for our customers and for our company in the long run.

I feel I have given a good explanation of why we would make this decision. The questions are repeating, as are my answers. We are not going to change our decision on this. I understand this will cost us sales and customs and that some people will tell everyone they meet that we are un American and all around bad guys. I can live with this. I could not live with the other scenario.

I appreciate your quick reply Tim, and you do what you want. But I've never heard of another company not selling someone a tire because of a liability. I still run Firestone Firehawks on my Tacoma and Firestone Wilderness tires on the Explorer. Never a problem out of either tire. I like the tire and granted they had problems, but they fixed them. I've also never heard of a case outside of your normal tire blowing from time to time or Firestone where people were killed when their tire blew because it was the wrong size or rating. And how many millions of people are on the road? http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif Accidents are going to happen. You could get a bad batch of tires tomorrow and sell them all. And all of the blow and possibly kill someone. Would you shut down Tire Rack if it happened? Probably not. Not to sound insensitive here, but accidents happen. And I wish they didnt. But they do. And companies still have to make money at the same time. I'm not saying sell a bad batch of tires to people intentionally, but if you havent had any previous problems with the tires, sell them. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

I appreciate your quick reply Tim, and you do what you want. But I've never heard of another company not selling someone a tire because of a liability. I still run Firestone Firehawks on my Tacoma and Firestone Wilderness tires on the Explorer. Never a problem out of either tire. I like the tire and granted they had problems, but they fixed them. I've also never heard of a case outside of your normal tire blowing from time to time or Firestone where people were killed when their tire blew because it was the wrong size or rating. And how many millions of people are on the road? http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif Accidents are going to happen. You could get a bad batch of tires tomorrow and sell them all. And all of the blow and possibly kill someone. Would you shut down Tire Rack if it happened? Probably not. Not to sound insensitive here, but accidents happen. And I wish they didnt. But they do. And companies still have to make money at the same time. I'm not saying sell a bad batch of tires to people intentionally, but if you havent had any previous problems with the tires, sell them. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif



This is not related to defective tires. Defective tires are the responsibility and liability of the company producing them. If we sold a tire knowing it was defective we would be at risk.

Selling a tire we know is not able to support the vehicles capabilities is similar to selling a tire we know is defective.

I'm glad you have no personal experience with tire failure. I am not lying when I say tire dealers have lost millions in jury awards for selling underloaded tires.

Dude why are you even here? Instead of trying to work out a deal with Joe, all you are doing is trying to justify why you wont sell him the tires. It isnt a big deal man. He'll go somewhere else I'm sure as will a lot of us. So it's done now. You dont own a taco do you? http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif And you have no information to offer on them, except that the tires someone KNOWS will fit wont because they arent rated right. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Go back to pushing buttons at tirerack. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evil.gif

Not trying to be mean, but there's no point in being here if you arent going to work out a deal with Joe. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

I also found this thread- What's the most you've towed with your taco?

http://www.customtacos.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=264379&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=186&fpart=1

"i've had the most about 15 people in my truck, me & 2 girls up front and 5 girls and 7 of my boys in the back during beach week going down the strip. the tires looked like they were gonna pop and the bumper was real close to the ground. "

Truck has 18" wheels. Imagine a tire failure and 12 kids go skidding down the pavement. Do you think their parents are going to go after just the driver or a mid sized corporation who sold him the tires? Do you think their parents or a jury would care that he signed a waiver?




Tim, let's not forget what you have already mentioned.... towing is not the same as load on the rear tires.... http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

I can't have more than 150lbs in the FRONT of my bed. anymore than that and my tires will be ate up by the fender wells sitting on top of them.
I know you're not going to change your decision and that's fine but I just want you to know that in my case, you're wrong...

-ComaJoe

http://www.fordexplorer.net/images/smiles/werd.gif

yea this guy is gonna worry about jury's n courts n sh*t... every time you get in a car you could die... its that simple.. joe wants some tires.. and you refused his sale.. thats fine.. but not all people use their trucks to haul

Have any of you guys that are complaining ever run/owned a business? As much as you guys don't like it, the way Tire Rack is handling this case is the way AMERICAN people have forced businesses to operate to stay alive. You can't run a high volume successful business by making exceptions to policy, potentially causing legal problems for yourself, and expect to stay around for very long. It's a fact of doing business in America these days. The shops that will sell you tires for a vehicle regardless of what it is going on don't care because they don't have much to lose. They have low profits and probably no liability insurance so it wouldn't make sense to sue them if the tires they sold were at fault. Tire Rack on the other hand probably does have liability insurance (read "deep pockets" ) and does turn a significant profit, so the lawyers would be standing in line to get their chunk of an insurance settlement.

You need to back of Tim for trying to be upfront, responsive, and logical. Not to mention that he's remained professional while you guys run your mouths. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

^^^ not reffering to me hopefully.

I understand the situation and I've already stated I would get the tires elsewhere. Major props to Tim indeed, however I can't say that I don't have a bitter taste in my mouth from the whole ordeal.

-ComaJoe

Well regardless of what anyone says, I think it's BS. My dad owns two businesses. If someone wants vinyl siding on their house, but the wood is rotten and things are falling apart, he's not going to turn them down.

He'll explain that they need to get everything fixed first, or let him fix it. If they dont want to fix it, but instead cover it, he makes them sign an agreement and takes pics of the house. Then he puts it up.

One lady did try to sue my dad once, but she couldnt get anything because he had the proof that it was like that before and they denied having it fixed. Her husband was even the witness. I mean, come on. Don't be stupid. If someone wants to buy your product and you don't think it's safe, make that known like Tim has done. BUT..... if they persist, make them sign waivers stating that they know of the risk but accept them anyways. Legally, that would be the end of it. How could they sue for something they knew about and then signed the waiver? They can't. I for one am definately not buying from Tire Rack now. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Well regardless of what anyone says, I think it's BS. My dad owns two businesses. If someone wants vinyl siding on their house, but the wood is rotten and things are falling apart, he's not going to turn them down.

He'll explain that they need to get everything fixed first, or let him fix it. If they dont want to fix it, but instead cover it, he makes them sign an agreement and takes pics of the house. Then he puts it up.

One lady did try to sue my dad once, but she couldnt get anything because he had the proof that it was like that before and they denied having it fixed. Her husband was even the witness. I mean, come on. Don't be stupid. If someone wants to buy your product and you don't think it's safe, make that known like Tim has done. BUT..... if they persist, make them sign waivers stating that they know of the risk but accept them anyways. Legally, that would be the end of it. How could they sue for something they knew about and then signed the waiver? They can't. I for one am definately not buying from Tire Rack now. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif



Re-read my posts. The liability concern is not necesarily with ComaJoe. The liability is with a 3rd party. It is with the passanger or the people in another car involved in the accident. They did not release us from liability.

The liability with selling something dangerous is quite different than siding that looks bad. I doubt many have been killed by falling vinal siding. Failed vinal siding was also not in the news for 2 years like tire related injuries were.

There is also a completely different liability with personal injury and death than a bad siding job. Siding is worth what it is. A persons life or limb is impossible to value.

Ask your dad if he would sell something that could cause death or injury to a third party?

Also, to answer your earlier question about why I am here. ComaJoe sent me an email alerting me to this post. I assumed that since he let me know about it he wanted more information on why we made our decission.

Tire Rack isn't the only company that wont sell because of this. There are other internet sites that wont sell us 225/40/18s either. People have posted about it here before. What's your policy if someone has a lifted truck and wants to get 33s or 35s or bigger? Would you be able to sell those to us?

I noticed that Tire Rack is a sponsor on many other car/truck related forums. Do they get discounts? How does that work? You interested? If so, talk to Jeff, the owner of the site at Jeff@CustomTacos.com

Thanks again for your time.

I apologize if I seemed harsh earlier, Tim. But this is what I'm having trouble understanding.

See, if a contractor covers up something such as rotten wood that helps with the structural integrity of a house, he is liable for the injuries caused if the house should collapse. BUT if the waiver is signed telling him to cover it, he is free and clear. Even if other people are in the house and it does collapse. Because it is the owner of the house's responsibility (if he feels it dangerous) to alert the visitors that the structural integrity might be compromised. But even if he doesnt, he is at fault. Not the contractor. Simply because it is his property. Therefore he takes on responsibility of whomever might be with him at the time of the accident. Now, why wouldn't it be the same for vehicles?

It's my truck. I bought and paid for it. Even though said company warned me about the tires, I signed a waiver for them. So they're my tires on my truck. I have two friends in the truck. They are my responsibility since I am the one in control of the truck. A tire goes flat. I can't keep control of the truck and flip it. Would that not be my responsibility since I lost control of the truck? http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif They didnt do anything but sit there. How can they sue another company for bad tires when I chose to put them on the truck?

Just trying to figure out why it's a liability. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif No offense man. I'd like to know these things for future reference.

Why don't you have McDonald's explain liability to you. They lost a lawsuit to a woman who spilled coffee on HERSELF. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Or Black and Decker who lost a lawsuit to a guy who used a LAWNmower to trim his hedges. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Or the guy who sued McDonald's for getting fat. Or the idiot that sued the strip club for allowing a stripper to hit his head with her boobs. Or the guy whose name is Jack Ass who sued MTV over the show Jackass. It's the stupidity and litigious nature of the American peiople that force companies to operate the way they do to stay in business.

Want to see how stupid and idiotic the sue happy people are?
http://www.power-of-attorneys.com/stupid_lawsuit_collection.asp

That's just ONE of the 97,200 results from a Google search for stupid lawsuits. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

all i gotta say is that this is a bunch of BS. tirerack.com HAS lost alot of customers over this, as well as people who were gonna buy tires and rims from them. if this is the hassle that everyone gets from you guys at tirerack then i say screw you guys and ill be glad to take my money else where and get the tires i want for my truck. and furthermore, everyone i know that are looking for rims and tires i will turn them away from tirerack.com

http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/draggin.gif real low means no tow

Same thing pretty much happened to me a few years ago at Sears. I wanted a 195/60-14 tire on my stock rim and due to liability and driving hazards they couldn't sell me the tires. If i wanted a 14" tire with a 60 sidewall then the minimum tread size would have to be a 215. I'm with Tim on this one no matter who doesn't like it.

the funny thing is that those tires are rated at 1235lbs. max load each and that is from Tire Racks site. You should bitch at them some more and tell them your truck is just over 3000 lbs. and no where near the 4900lbs the tires are rated at.
712 specs (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Kumho&model=ECSTA+Supra+712)



yeah, but they go by GVWR, so the truck w/ max load is what they base it on, what's stpid is when i went through this with them, they said thye could sell me a 235/40/18, but not the 225 http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

ended up getting them from jegs for $99 each and free shipping http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

$432.91 shipped! nice! thx Chris! http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clapping.gif

-ComaJoe

I didn't want to get into this, but I will post my thoughts on the whole issue. I live about an hour or so away from the Shreveport tire rack, and when I wanted to get my Supra Ecsta 712's (235/40/18), they did warn me about their concerns with running 225/40/18s, which is what I originally wanted. They talked me into going up to 235/40/18s for a VERY small increase in price, and I do mean small, and then I asked about shipping or if I could pick them up. They told me to come on over to their warehouse and my tires would be there. As soon as we hung up the phone, I was headed to tire rack and within 10 minutes of pulling up to the warehouse, I had my tires in the back of my truck (which they loaded for me) and had everything paid for.

I will always buy my tires from tire rack and highly appreciate them not just selling anything to a customer and I appreciate them looking out for the customer.

You guys keep up the good work Tim, and don't think for a second that you have lost me as a customer. Most of these guys don't understand what is going on with TireRack, they see a company that refused to sell a specific item to a customer for liability reasons, and decided to jump on the bandwagon. I, however have done business with TireRack and know many people that have done business as well, and this is the first complaint I have ever heard about TireRack.

just wondering....wouldn't maybe a "show use only" waiver give you freedom from 3rd party liability? i mean if someone agrees that they are purchasing these tires and only for show, not street use, and then they decide to drive on them, they take on the responsibility for that action http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif personally, i couldn't fit a 235, 225/40 was the max and i had to go elsewhere http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Most of these guys don't understand what is going on with TireRack, they see a company that refused to sell a specific item to a customer for liability reasons, and decided to jump on the bandwagon. I, however have done business with TireRack and know many people that have done business as well, and this is the first complaint I have ever heard about TireRack.

liability reasons? so what the guys at the warehouse you goto are exempt? they warned you but still gave you the tires.. did you have to sign a waiver? gee if they did it how come tim cant? http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif

Most of these guys don't understand what is going on with TireRack, they see a company that refused to sell a specific item to a customer for liability reasons, and decided to jump on the bandwagon. I, however have done business with TireRack and know many people that have done business as well, and this is the first complaint I have ever heard about TireRack.

liability reasons? so what the guys at the warehouse you goto are exempt? they warned you but still gave you the tires.. did you have to sign a waiver? gee if they did it how come tim cant? http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif



He bought the size they recommended. He said so in the part of his post you cut out. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doah.gif

He bought the size they recommended. He said so in the part of his post you cut out. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doah.gif

hmmm.. this part?


I wanted to get my Supra Ecsta 712's (235/40/18), they did warn me about their concerns with running 225/40/18s, which is what I originally wanted. They talked me into going up to 235/40/18s for a VERY small increase in price, and I do mean small, and then I asked about shipping or if I could pick them up.


where they recommended he goto a wider tire? 225 vs 235 is very minimal

that is what they told me when i tried to order as well, that they could sell me a 235/40, but not the 225/40, apparently the 235 allows for enough load capacity, though it's really hard to see 10mm in width making all that much difference for load, it makes a world of difference when trying to tuck

If you guys can't understand why they follow rules and guidelines, then don't shop there. There is plenty of stuff you can buy from wheelmax.com instead. I have had good dealings with TireRack and know a lot of other people that have as well, and I will always recommend TireRack to anyone that asks.

Frankly, I respect them more as a company for not selling tires that don't follow all the ratings and such. I would much prefer to buy from a company that will warn me of these hazards than a company that wouldn't. There is a reason someone earlier called a shop that would have sold the tires "shady".

Granted, I know that I am not going to haul anything with my truck, but I still feel better knowing that I am running the right tire on my truck. Better safe than sorry, ya know?

Anyway, I'm not trying to be a [censored] or anything, it just tickles me to see someone have one bad dealing with a company, and everyone on here jumps on the bandwagon and bashes said company, even after a representative for that company takes time out of his day to explain in plenty detail why comajoe didn't get the tires he wanted. Sometimes, you have to make your own conclusions based on experience, and not based on what someone says on CT. Anyway, that is all I have left to say about this, if anyone takes any of this as a personal insult, then don't because it wasn't meant to be.

http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/draggin.gif

If you guys can't understand why they follow rules and guidelines, then don't shop there. There is plenty of stuff you can buy from wheelmax.com instead. I have had good dealings with TireRack and know a lot of other people that have as well, and I will always recommend TireRack to anyone that asks.

Frankly, I respect them more as a company for not selling tires that don't follow all the ratings and such. I would much prefer to buy from a company that will warn me of these hazards than a company that wouldn't. There is a reason someone earlier called a shop that would have sold the tires "shady".

Granted, I know that I am not going to haul anything with my truck, but I still feel better knowing that I am running the right tire on my truck. Better safe than sorry, ya know?

Anyway, I'm not trying to be a [censored] or anything, it just tickles me to see someone have one bad dealing with a company, and everyone on here jumps on the bandwagon and bashes said company, even after a representative for that company takes time out of his day to explain in plenty detail why comajoe didn't get the tires he wanted. Sometimes, you have to make your own conclusions based on experience, and not based on what someone says on CT. Anyway, that is all I have left to say about this, if anyone takes any of this as a personal insult, then don't because it wasn't meant to be.

http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/draggin.gif




well said negro

http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

where they recommended he goto a wider tire? 225 vs 235 is very minimal



235 is wider and has a higher load capacity. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

Simple as this, I've been shopping at TireRack looking for my new rims and tires for about 4 months now.

I'll shop elsewhere now. http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif

I'm sorry but my opinion stands also. Tire Rack = http://www.fordexplorer.net/images/smiles/bsflag.gif

http://www.fordexplorer.net/images/smiles/dancingdown.gif

well has anyone ever had a prob running 225/40/18's? i just bought the kumho all weather xtremes in that size. you guys got me all nervous now thinking my truck is gonna flip over and blow up! j/k not funny.

no sir, a lot of guys run that size, most all BAGGED guys do at least, and I have never heard of one problem. I have been through three sets of that size personally.

What about taking your truck to a shop that installs bags? They're illegal and could potentionally fail causing you to wreck and kill people but I don't see those shops turning away business.

Tirerack's whole ideology is bogus. I just think they have too much sand in their vagina.

They told me the exact same thing when they called me to confirm my order. I told him they were for my M3 http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

Tirerack's whole ideology is bogus. I just think they have too much sand in their vagina.



Then spend your money elsewhere for the same product with a larger price tag and poor customer service....

Then spend your money elsewhere for the same product with a larger price tag and poor customer service....

hmm from what joe paid i think it was a matter of 41 cents http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

$432.91 shipped! nice! thx Chris! http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clapping.gif

-ComaJoe



yea! like me! http://www.CustomTacos.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

-ComaJoe

yup, old ass thread..

Can't you simply call and tell them its for a kit car or show vehicle or something along those lines?

I found this when searching for something else..
Interesting topic..