Can someone educate me about ignition timing reading - Toyota Tacoma Forum

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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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Can someone educate me about ignition timing reading

Hi,

so after few days running my new setup. I will start to learn more about it to keep tracking of what is good and what is not.

There is something on what I don't know much and I need to learn. As most of you know, it's my stock ECU that is ajusting fuel and timing.

I have an OBD2 reader where I watch my timing values. I'd like to know what to observe as good values, safe values and dangerous values.

I will eventually extend my searches on internet after that, but I need a starting point. Do I should care about crusing values or if it's really just under high load I should care about them and what they should be?

Thanks!

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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 12:09 PM
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Re: Can someone educate me about ignition timing reading

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're looking for, but ...

The FSM isn't much help in explaining how timing is adjusted under all load conditions.

If you bridge the TE1 and E1 terminals on the DLC1 connector (engine bay) your 1996 3RZ should indicate a timing setting of 3 to 7 degrees BTDC at idle (650 - 750 rpm's).

If you un-bridge those two terminals, the timing (per the timing mark; with a timing light) should range between 7 and 18 degrees BTDC at idle.

These are the idling base line spec's. If the FSM gives any info on how things vary from base line under load I've never found it.

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Can someone educate me about ignition timing reading

Thanks for the answer. In fact now I have the 98 engine/ECU, there is not much I can do about the base timing. The OBD scanner reads 5 BTDC but it's not ajustable.

My question was more related about what occurs with the timing during high load at full boost.

I guess if the engine knocks too much, the timing will retard to a point where eventually I will have lost most of the potential power I should produce. Or the timing will retard to a maximum where knocking will become uncotrolable and I could damage the engine.

To explain better my question, for example, if I go for a long pull on third or forth gear. Looking at my OBD2 scanner for the ajusted instant timing values. Is there a number of degree of advance or retard at which I will know I should stop pushing it.

Thanks

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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 06:35 AM
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Re: Can someone educate me about ignition timing reading

If you are in high gear and rpm's are below 2500 rpm timing should be around 28-33 degrees on flat ground. When you go up a long hill that is steep enough to get you over 5 psi of boost timing will drop to around 13 degrees. If you hold it there and it begins to knock you can watch timing drop. If it gets below about 10 degrees it will start "rich knocking" because it doesn't have enough timing to burn all the fuel going in. This can cause timing to cascade down into the single digits. If timing is in the single digits it will have very little power. I'd say single digits are when you know you have a timing problem.

If you see timing in the single digits you probably need to desensitize the knock sensor more. I mounted my GM knock sensor at the lower rear of the block near the oil pan to make it pick up less engine noise so it would run more timing. It seemed to work fine like that. It still picked up big knocks but it quit reducing my timing on cold mornings when my old worn pistons were slapping. I watched my timing drop to zero on level ground cruising on the highway once on a cold morning. That's when I decided something had to be done to desensitize the knock sensor. I did the GM knock sensor mod and mounted it where I described. It really helped restore power at low rpms. Your forged pistons will probably slap a lot until they warm up and expand.

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 06:45 AM
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Re: Can someone educate me about ignition timing reading

I attached the 93 octane timing table I'm using in my standalone. The values are probably a few degrees above stock but you can compare your OBDII reader's values to these and know if your timing values are way off from where they should be.

By the way 100kpa is 0 psi of boost. 200kpa is 14.5 psi of boost.
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File Type: jpg 3rzTurbo93octaneTimingTable.jpg (41.4 KB, 8 views)

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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Can someone educate me about ignition timing reading

Thanks, that is gonna be an awsome starting point.

About the forged Wiseco pistons. Honnestly they are suprisingly quiet. I was expecting them to be much more loud especially on cold start. We had a couple of -20 C this week (-4 F) and the noise level was very acceptable. I was expeting the noise to be close to these old VW diesel but it's barely noticable compared to any other gas engine. Only during the first minute with the hood open you can hear their particular knocking sounds but it stops quickly.

I'm running 5W40 castrol that we also put in all the volkswagen turbo gasser engines. Even with my old worn and tired 3RZ the mechanical noises were noticably reduced after an oil change (I usually did my oil changes at 15 000km interval with the 3RZ so it's no surprise the difference it made).

Therefore, at subsonic levels, the forged piston probably produce more knocking than regular tighter pistons.

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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Can someone educate me about ignition timing reading

Did very few timing reading while I was driving back today.

It seems good.

Crusing with not a load in 4th gear at 2700-2900 rpm I was in the 28-30 degree.

Then I went for a 3rd gear full pull up to 5000rpm, it eventually drops to approx 18 degrees.

I compared to your timing table and it makes sense. I should be in a safe range and probably having a good performance out of the setup. I'm running 91 octane (the highest we have around here) and some 87 that was remaining from my previous fill up.

Thanks again!

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