Dear CT i have failed.. - Toyota Tacoma Forum
User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
#1 (permalink) Old 12-23-2012, 05:56 PM
Grand Tacoholic
 
Firdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dickinson TX
Posts: 14,442
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Dear CT i have failed..

This is half info half venting..skip to the end for cliffs..
For year now i have been having problems with blowing out spark and having to run such a small plug gap that i'm losing power.. So fast forward a couple of years when i help my friend swap a 1jz into a supra.. through my knowledge of blowing out spark, i helped him the best i could.. well through a mutual friend who works on mainly chevy's, we learned that ls truck cils are good for up to 300+hp per cylinder.. after he went standalone, he swapped in ls coils in his supra and opened up the plug gap.. the difference as beyond day and night. It idled perfectly and ran ike a scalded ape.. such an improvement that i always said i would do the same to my truck when i could.. well after rebuilding my engine and fixing about everything else, i decided to go for it.
So i ripped out the harness, and soldered in the ls coil harness.. well it started up first try and ran for a whopping 2 seconds before dying.. and the same again and again and again. Through my research i discovered several things.. first is that the ls and toyota coils have completely different feedback signals to the ecu. the toyota coils use a flat pulsed signal, these signals are known as igf signals. .. the ls coils have a more peaked grounded signal..
So ls coils did not work on the stock ecu as is. more and more research led to mostly supra owners running e-manage piggybacks, having a problem with the igf signal not being generated due to the ignighter being bypassed.. so after reading through it all i saw that some had made a chip using a npn transistor to take the coil firing signal and through the transistor , create a igf signal and feed it back to the ecu.
so after making the same chip myself, i installed it.. and it did not work at all for me. i tried switching up several things.. After three weeks of trying everything i could try and with no success, ive soldered back in the stock coils..
I must say though that i feel gutted.. ive never worked so hard and long on something to fail in the end .. the sad part is that th coils would run just fine given the ecu wasn't so pissed off at the igf signal..
The only good news in all of this being that i'm going to convert to a standalone at the first of the year and this problem will be a distant memory.
so in closing, if you every think of running ls coils, good luck to you

Cliffs: Tried to run ls coil's on the stock taco ecu.. tried everything, it didnt work out.

dumpted since 2/15/08 MMMMMM boos t
Firdaddy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 (permalink) Old 12-23-2012, 06:24 PM
Grand Tacoholic
 
mitzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 5,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Re: Dear CT i have failed..

yea, **** the stock ECU!!! Good luck going standalone! Which one do you plan on using?
At least now you have the LS coils
mitzu is offline  
#3 (permalink) Old 12-23-2012, 09:10 PM
Tacoholic
 
671taco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Woodlands/671
Posts: 2,188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Re: Dear CT i have failed..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firdaddy View Post
This is half info half venting..skip to the end for cliffs..
For year now i have been having problems with blowing out spark and having to run such a small plug gap that i'm losing power.. So fast forward a couple of years when i help my friend swap a 1jz into a supra.. through my knowledge of blowing out spark, i helped him the best i could.. well through a mutual friend who works on mainly chevy's, we learned that ls truck cils are good for up to 300+hp per cylinder.. after he went standalone, he swapped in ls coils in his supra and opened up the plug gap.. the difference as beyond day and night. It idled perfectly and ran ike a scalded ape.. such an improvement that i always said i would do the same to my truck when i could.. well after rebuilding my engine and fixing about everything else, i decided to go for it.
So i ripped out the harness, and soldered in the ls coil harness.. well it started up first try and ran for a whopping 2 seconds before dying.. and the same again and again and again. Through my research i discovered several things.. first is that the ls and toyota coils have completely different feedback signals to the ecu. the toyota coils use a flat pulsed signal, these signals are known as igf signals. .. the ls coils have a more peaked grounded signal..
So ls coils did not work on the stock ecu as is. more and more research led to mostly supra owners running e-manage piggybacks, having a problem with the igf signal not being generated due to the ignighter being bypassed.. so after reading through it all i saw that some had made a chip using a npn transistor to take the coil firing signal and through the transistor , create a igf signal and feed it back to the ecu.
so after making the same chip myself, i installed it.. and it did not work at all for me. i tried switching up several things.. After three weeks of trying everything i could try and with no success, ive soldered back in the stock coils..
I must say though that i feel gutted.. ive never worked so hard and long on something to fail in the end .. the sad part is that th coils would run just fine given the ecu wasn't so pissed off at the igf signal..
The only good news in all of this being that i'm going to convert to a standalone at the first of the year and this problem will be a distant memory.
so in closing, if you every think of running ls coils, good luck to you

Cliffs: Tried to run ls coil's on the stock taco ecu.. tried everything, it didnt work out.
My buddy would be able to make it work with the megasquirt! Why didn't you just go this route??? lol Hit me up when you're ready!


BOOSTED 2RZ @ 434hp 368tq @ 18PSI/ OEF 10-11
671taco is offline  
#4 (permalink) Old 12-23-2012, 11:21 PM
ADMlNAHATER
 
Chris D.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minnesota (St. Paul)
Posts: 8,512
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Re: Dear CT i have failed..

I'll be running the ms3x a few months into 2013.

Are the LS coils a physical direct bolt in other than the wiring/compatability issues?
I've read the LS coils are only good upto around 200hp per.
Any pictures?

Its not a failure, you just have to change a few things around the coils to make em work.


Last edited by Chris D.; 12-23-2012 at 11:24 PM.
Chris D. is offline  
#5 (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 06:17 AM
Addict
 
Texas_Ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW Texas
Posts: 964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Re: Dear CT i have failed..

LS coils are good but there are a few different kinds. The LS1 suck. The LS2 are better. The best are the LS truck coils from the flex fuel trucks. Do a search and you can see the comparison. The truck coils have a heat sink on them.

That said the LS coils are not true COP, they are coil per plug. The coils are mounted separate from the plugs.

I am surprised the stock coils are not enough, stock 1zz/2zz coils are common coils for turbo toyotas and have been used for over 800whp on E98 (very hard to ignite). Could see if one of those coils will bolt in place. Might even use the same connector.

Although since toyota uses those same coils for pretty much everything I am surprised that the 2rz/3rz doesn't use them as well.

2000 Toyota 4runner Limited 3.4l V6 Auto SUPERCHARGED, Meth injection, 2.0" Pulley, Doug Thorley Headers - My truck - My Youtube with lots more
Member of the "No BOV Club"
Texas_Ace is offline  
#6 (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 03:43 PM
Grand Tacoholic
 
Firdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dickinson TX
Posts: 14,442
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Re: Dear CT i have failed..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitzu View Post
yea, **** the stock ECU!!! Good luck going standalone! Which one do you plan on using?
At least now you have the LS coils
i'm going with megasquirt through 671taco's buddy

Quote:
Originally Posted by 671taco View Post
My buddy would be able to make it work with the megasquirt! Why didn't you just go this route??? lol Hit me up when you're ready!
i know it will work with the ms, that was not my goal.. i wanted to see if it could be done and to help out the taco community

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas_Ace View Post
LS coils are good but there are a few different kinds. The LS1 suck. The LS2 are better. The best are the LS truck coils from the flex fuel trucks. Do a search and you can see the comparison. The truck coils have a heat sink on them.

That said the LS coils are not true COP, they are coil per plug. The coils are mounted separate from the plugs.

I am surprised the stock coils are not enough, stock 1zz/2zz coils are common coils for turbo toyotas and have been used for over 800whp on E98 (very hard to ignite). Could see if one of those coils will bolt in place. Might even use the same connector.

Although since toyota uses those same coils for pretty much everything I am surprised that the 2rz/3rz doesn't use them as well.
i'm aware of the celica coils being pretty damn good for coil on plugs, however i got the ls coils for free since a friend owed me money and i am familiar with them.. i do know that the 1zz coils will work eletronically and the ecu will accept them, i am however unaware if they are the correct length to work on a 2rz nor if the plug is the same, not that it really matters if you can get hold of the pigtails


on a side note, i'm pretty sure i could have made the ls coils work if i wired in an igniter to create an igf signal, however adding on things like a igniter defeats the purpose of what i was doing as i see that as moving backwards..

dumpted since 2/15/08 MMMMMM boos t
Firdaddy is offline  
#7 (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 03:46 PM
Tacoholic
 
671taco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Woodlands/671
Posts: 2,188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Re: Dear CT i have failed..

Got you bro! Good looking out for the taco community!


BOOSTED 2RZ @ 434hp 368tq @ 18PSI/ OEF 10-11
671taco is offline  
#8 (permalink) Old 12-24-2012, 08:43 PM
Tacoholic
 
NVTACO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lost wages
Posts: 1,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Re: Dear CT i have failed..

damn that would piss me off. i wonder if you could get a resistor or something to replicate the igf signal
NVTACO is offline  
#9 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 10:54 AM
Grand Tacoholic
 
Firdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dickinson TX
Posts: 14,442
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Re: Dear CT i have failed..

Quote:
Originally Posted by NVTACO View Post
damn that would piss me off. i wonder if you could get a resistor or something to replicate the igf signal
The igf signal is a pulsed ground, the igt is a 5v positive.. So you can't use a simple resistor.. That's why I went with a transistor. It takes the 5v signal, and when it pulses it connects the igf wire to ground. Basically a transistor is a fast switching relay.. More to the point, the igt pulse lasts a total of 3 milliseconds at idle and 1.7 ms at top Rpm's also which I found odd.. The ecu outputs a 5v positive signal at all times from the ecu, so basically due to grounding out from the igf from the coil packs it drops to 0v when it ignites the plug..

dumpted since 2/15/08 MMMMMM boos t
Firdaddy is offline  
#10 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 12:08 PM
Addict
 
Texas_Ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW Texas
Posts: 964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Re: Dear CT i have failed..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firdaddy View Post
The igf signal is a pulsed ground, the igt is a 5v positive.. So you can't use a simple resistor.. That's why I went with a transistor. It takes the 5v signal, and when it pulses it connects the igf wire to ground. Basically a transistor is a fast switching relay.. More to the point, the igt pulse lasts a total of 3 milliseconds at idle and 1.7 ms at top Rpm's also which I found odd.. The ecu outputs a 5v positive signal at all times from the ecu, so basically due to grounding out from the igf from the coil packs it drops to 0v when it ignites the plug..
My guess is the longer pulse is due to a longer dwell time at high RPM.

Most OEM setups will vary the dwell time throughout the RPM range/load range and voltage range. They figure why have more spark then you need. It will help the coils last longer.

Might try logging the pulse to the coil as well to see is it correlates with the dwell time.

2000 Toyota 4runner Limited 3.4l V6 Auto SUPERCHARGED, Meth injection, 2.0" Pulley, Doug Thorley Headers - My truck - My Youtube with lots more
Member of the "No BOV Club"
Texas_Ace is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Toyota Tacoma Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



  Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dear Alcohol.. glassdoc Off Topic 1 08-21-2007 06:44 PM
Dear God Help Me!!! Reece Man Off Topic 40 05-02-2007 04:50 PM
Dear Lord, not another... fabtaco Off Topic 12 09-19-2005 01:23 AM
Dear Captain.... Flyin Taco Off Topic 13 11-22-2002 06:20 PM
Dear Abby... RevHard6 Off Topic 16 10-24-2002 05:14 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome