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1998 3RZ S/C piggyback: FTC1-E vs MAP ECU2?

4K views 10 replies 3 participants last post by  bakhtiarahmed 
#1 ·
So I've had the FTC1-E installed for a couple of weeks now, and mostly have it tuned. After working with it and paying careful attention to what I'm doing, I'm getting a bit frustrated with some of its limitations (not to mention the R4 software, which has some frustrating limitations as well). Most notably, the unit only has one type of fuel injector offset (it's main fuel table), and many of the cells on the border between closed and open loop do double purpose, with widely varying results -- one value works great for one mode and is horribly out of whack for the other. Picking the spot in the middle is about all I can do, and that's not always a good idea. As a result, the acceleration is only so-so, as I am still pig rich (~10.0:1) in certain cells in Open Loop and lean in those same cells if I creep up on them in Closed Loop.

I've tried different onset points for EGO signal clamp, but that doesn't seem to solve the above issue. I'd love an option for acceleration enrichment, but that's not available.

So I'm curious if any of the MAP ECU2 owners could share their thoughts on that unit, especially running a S/C 3RZ? I'm not looking for turbo power, just looking to get the right power out of what I have, with the right fuel mixtures. The MAP ECU2 seems to have about a bazillion more adjustments than the FTC1-E, including acceleration enrichment, so I'm wondering what the folks who actually run one think of it. Also, how easy was it to set up and lay down a base tune? How easy/hard is it to use? Etc.

I'm running a 2.4" pulley and 330cc/min injectors. I'm currently making 180 rwhp on the dyno @ ~6ps on an otherwise stock motor; not earth shattering but also not horrible, and at least everything is working.

Thanks,

Jeff
 
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#2 ·
ME2 is still a piggyback unit, and suffers from the same issue you're facing with cells overlapping in closed loop and open loop. All piggybacks do. I'm not an expert at tuning, but what I've done is to tune these cells for open loop, and let the ECU figure out the rest. If it wants to cut back on fuel, I let it have at it.

Sometimes the ECU couldn't cut back enough fuel, and one benefit of the ME2 is the optional AFR calibration. With this, you can richen the closed loop AFR where you please. I have mine set to gradually richen the mixture in higher RPM, higher load cells, thus keeping the ECU happy with the closed loop AFR. It can cut back on fuel and see a stoich mixture, but it's actually rich and ready to smoothly transition to open loop.

Before considering other piggybacks, I'd see what else you can do to make it work with the equipment you have.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Thanks. I'm not giving up on the FTC yet, but It's just very frustrating to have the same cell give me an AFR of 10.5:1 in open loop and 15.9:1 in closed loop. I definitely wish it could do things it can't.

Overall, are you happy with the ME2? If you were to start over, would you still choose it, or would you go a different route?

On my 22RTE truck, I have a FAST standalone, so I know what's possible with a true standalone, and I also know that a piggyback isn't that.

Thanks again,

Jeff
 
#11 ·
:waytogo:
Thanks. I'm not giving up on the FTC yet, but It's just very frustrating to have the same cell give me an AFR of 10.5:1 in open loop and 15.9:1 in closed loop. I definitely wish it could do things it can't.

Overall, are you happy with the ME2? If you were to start over, would you still choose it, or would you go a different route?

On my 22RTE truck, I have a FAST standalone, so I know what's possible with a true standalone, and I also know that a piggyback isn't that.

Thanks again,

Jeff
 
#4 ·
Yes, I'd use the ME2. It has many features in one box, and the real time tuning is great. I've had a few hiccups. One of the two channels in the AFR calibrator suddenly failed, and the ME2 crashed while connecting and disconnecting from the PC. Both issues were resolved fairly easily within 6 hours.
 
#5 ·
Thanks, Tred, that's very helpful.

A few more questions, if you don't mind:

Are you running the ME2 in MAF Intercept or MAP Replacement mode?

What feature do you wish it had that it doesn't?

Do you have any opinion on the GReddy E-Manage Ultimate?

Overall, are you satisfied with the drivability of your setup? Is it reasonably well mannered on the street, is it a beast, or is it able to balance those two things?

Thanks again. It's really helpful to hear form someone who's running this on the same motor, albeit with a different power adder.

Jeff
 
#6 ·
MAF Intercept. MAF is in the charge pipe downstream from the IC and BOV, about 18 inches from the TB.

For what I need, ME2 does it all. I just wish that there was a port fueler for the 2/3RZ like URD has for the 5VZ. That will make tuning much easier to not have to fine tune the nearly-double-size injectors, and to just add fuel when and where needed. I suppose a USB connection would be nice, rather than the Serial connection, but that's really not a big issue.

I know nothing about Greddy units.

After I worked out some bugs with my turbo setup, things have been good. I did readjust the AFR calibration a few days ago. It was adding more fuel than it should have, and I suspect the OEM AFR sensor might be aging. Anyway, If I floor it, I have power. My wastegate is set at 14PSI with a turbo well matched to the motor, so I don't have any drivability issues. It does act funny while rapidly switching back and forth from open to closed loop, like in parking lots. I think it's a tuning issue, and that it's too rich in those low RPM high vacuum cells.
 
#7 ·
Well, I was all set to bide my time with the FTC1-E, but I found a deal on a used MAP ECU2 that was too good to pass up, so I jumped on it. I figure I can always resell it for what I paid for it if I don't like it. :D

Now I need to hunt up the correct wiring diagram for my 1998 3RZ-FE. Any chance you (or anyone reading this) have a copy of the MAP ECU2 / 3RZ-FE wiring diagram I could "borrow"? I found a MAP ECU2 diagram for the 1997 2R-FE, but I am not sure if there are wiring differences between the 2RZ-FE and 3RZ-FE. I joined the map-ecu.com forum to ask them directly for a diagram, but I don't seem to have permission to begin threads there yet.

Thanks for whatever help you (or anyone) can provide,

Jeff
 
#9 ·
That's OK -- I think yours uses AFR sensors instead of the narrowband O2 sensors that mine uses, so it would probably be different anyway. Thanks for responding.

I've written URD and asked if they would send me one (or, alternatively, if I could buy one). Although I didn't buy the MAP ECU2 from them I did buy the FTC1-E from them, and I expect I'll be buying other stuff from them in the future. I did find a MAP ECU2 diagram for a 1996 3RZ, but the harnesses and pins are different, so if I can't find something specific for the 1998 3RZ I'll need to translate that install to mine.

If anyone has a MAP ECU2 install diagram for a 1998 3RZ, please hook me up!

-Jeff
 
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